[SOTW Discussion] Talk inside...

[HELEN]

*shudder* Sculptris. That program definitely flew over my head. 

[DarkShock]

 Let's encourage openness and honesty yes?

Yes.

[barbieq25]

Guys, I agree with what you've said. You too Helen. Just could not get my head around Sculptris either.

 

Rule #6 in its entirety talked about using another program & then passing it off as 100% PDN.

 

As I said, this does not seem to be the issue that it once was & perhaps we could just say that if you use stock images or other programs, please state which elements were stock or created with another program.

PDN is an image editor not image creator/generator like the aforementioned programs & others, & to assemble elements in PDN is quite acceptable if properly referenced. I think honesty was mentioned in this. 

 

To deny the use of other programs is like saying Kurt Schwitters' work does not qualify as art because some of it is collage, collected from discarded every day pieces of paper with text. 

 

There have been very powerful images on here that blended elements from more than one program but were not passed off as 100% PDN. 

 

Many of us have learnt so much from each other & not all of it related to PDN, & I hope we can continue to do this.

[nitenurse79]

I don't have any of the previously mentioned programs. They would all blow my tiny mind, even the thought of using blender sends me into a shaking wreck. When I use stock I always link to it, even then I try to change it as much as I can in paint.net. To me it is all creativity, If myself (or other members here) can utilise a stock image or a render and incorporate it into something new and unique, that is the one that catches my eye. I agree with Barbieq25 too that we have learned so much from each other, I for one have been inspired by so many on here to continue making my own take on digital art.  I do agree with rule #6, but it would be difficult (for me) to pick what is or is not pdn (unless it is obvious) on some creations. 

But to conclude - I certainly do agree that links to what you used (if you used something) should be provided. And also to agree with Welshblue - How many people do scroll down to see the entry ? I know I don't, I'm too lazy, I vote for the eye appeal and creativity

 

When I was host I had 8 rules and the pdn only rule was not one of them (such a chilled out host(ess) I was

 

wow - so much typing and big words I used. My brain is now officially closed

[chimay12321]

Well, as long as you state you used stocks (so practically it's not 100% PDN, because rendering is awful to do with PDN (tried it :S)), I'm fine with that. But you MUST state it, you may not make your image with Photoshop and post it as an 100% PDN image. 

[DarkShock]

If I were to host SOTW, I would make the rule #5 slightly different.

 

Not only must you state that stocks were used, you must provide a link for every stock that was used. It's almost like writing an essay (but much simpler, obviously). You have to list your resources at the end and then go into detail. You don't just put a notice at the end stating that you obtained information from an outside source and end it at that. Hopefully this isn't too harsh of a rule.

 

I don't think the SOTW competition has any issues with people using programs other than PdN to make their entries. Everyone seems to be honest when it comes to that rule. I just think rule #5 should be enforced a little bit more. It currently says links to sources would be courteous, but I think it should be mandatory. Once again, sorry if that seem a little harsh.

[Red ochre]

I noticed in the 'admins & mods' sig of the week both Dug and NN79 used socks - does that break any rules?

[Ego Eram Reputo]

Stock sock

@Red Ochre: Now that you've thrilled us all with Scribble and Cobweb - how about a Terragen clone so we can still say "100% PDN"

[chimay12321]

If I were to host SOTW, I would make the rule #5 slightly different.

 

Not only must you state that stocks were used, you must provide a link for every stock that was used. It's almost like writing an essay (but much simpler, obviously). You have to list your resources at the end and then go into detail. You don't just put a notice at the end stating that you obtained information from an outside source and end it at that. Hopefully this isn't too harsh of a rule.

 

I don't think the SOTW competition has any issues with people using programs other than PdN to make their entries. Everyone seems to be honest when it comes to that rule. I just think rule #5 should be enforced a little bit more. It currently says links to sources would be courteous, but I think it should be mandatory. Once again, sorry if that seem a little harsh.

 

I already was thinking about reformulating the rules a bit, because some of them seem rather ambiguous. 

 

I'll post my reformulated rules in this topic first before applying them, so we're 100% sure they're clear for all

 

1. Max sig dimensions 500x200. Please NOTE: The forum limits signatures to 500x150, if it is too large do not try to use it as your sig.
2. Please keep your sig family friendly. (As stated by the forum rule #12)
3. Keep to the theme that has been set.
4. Modifying or replacing your sig is permitted until the deadline. Any modifications or submissions after the deadline will be disqualified. 
5. You may use stocks/renders/etc. that are not made with PDN.
6. Don’t violate copyright laws with found images; links to source images are mandatory.
7. Your entry must be made using paint.net, please don't use an outside image editor and try passing it off as PDN work. 

 

Are these formulations better than the old ones?? (especially rule #6, I'm not sure about that one) Are these formulations a bit too harsh? Any other remarks about those?

 

Edit: Edited #3 and #6 to the old versions. 

Edit 2: removed 'would' in #5 and added 'you may use stocks...'

Edited November 15, 2013 by chimay12321

[nitenurse79]

I don't really think rule#6 needs changing from how it is written now. 

I would use this part of rule#6 - You may use stocks/renders etc. that are not made with PDN, but you’re obligated to tell us what stocks/renders/programs you’ve used.  And make it rule#7.   I think the modification to rule#3 is a little harsh, all the time I was hosting the comp I never had any entry not keeping within the theme set.  People on here do play fair.

 

I do notice rule#5 mentioned a lot in this discussion yet  You and Karasufate have not put links to what stocks you used, only typed words  

 

The remainder of the rules seem OK though.

[DarkShock]

I'll have to agree with nitenurse. Rule 6 and 3 are fine as is. The revision you made to rule #5 is what needed to happen. Now people will know that links to sources aren't optional.

Edited November 15, 2013 by DarkShock

[skullbonz]

 

 

How many people scroll down through the entries looking to see what is 100% PDN and what isn't before voting anyways ?

 

I do/did because it is/was in the rules.  

 

 

When I make a picture in terragen and save it,it saves as a bmp. I then take it into PDN and save it as a png. Would this be considered an acceptable entry?    How about if I change the color added a few things and blurred it a bit? 

 

How about a picture of me with a sculptris head with a photograph for a background? 

 

Both would be considered assembled but not entirely made in PDN in my eyes and therefore by all your opinions it would be acceptable as an entry into a PDN competition?

Edited November 15, 2013 by skullbonz

[chimay12321]

Okay, I'll leave 6 and 3 as they are. Thank you for your feedback

 

I stated the links to the stocks I used in this topic, forgot to copy paste them into my entry

Edited November 15, 2013 by chimay12321

[Ego Eram Reputo]

Proposed rule #5 - remove the word "would".

I also like NiteNurse's version regarding stocks and outside images.

Other than that, I agree with the other rules as stated.

[chimay12321]

I added the 'you may use stocks [...]' rule as rule #5, because you first must be permitted to use stocks to be able to link them in your entry (sorry if this seems a bit autistic). I left out the 'but you’re obligated to [...]' part, because it practically says the same as current rule #6

Edited November 15, 2013 by chimay12321

[chimay12321]

Meh, I have a habit to clinch to things... Like a parasite, you won't have me leaving for quite a while!

[sashwilko]

I added the 'you may use stocks [...]' rule as rule #5, because you first must be permitted to use stocks to be able to link them in your entry (sorry if this seems a bit autistic). I left out the 'but you’re obligated to [...]' part, because it practically says the same as current rule #6

So you need to get consent from the individual who made the stock before you post your entry ? That would take weeks!  (if you even get a reply from the person who made it)

This comp is going to end up being to hard to even enter, if we all have to write to the stock owners first. (how would we prove that? - send you a PM copy of an e-mail ? )

 

The F U N is really going out of this. Such a shame

[barbieq25]

Forming, storming, norming...

 

I think this is all very healthy discussion. New & improved version of SOTW.

 

You guys are great!

[chimay12321]

So you need to get consent from the individual who made the stock before you post your entry ? That would take weeks!  (if you even get a reply from the person who made it)

This comp is going to end up being to hard to even enter, if we all have to write to the stock owners first. (how would we prove that? - send you a PM copy of an e-mail ? )

 

The F U N is really going out of this. Such a shame

 

Edit: Sorry, I know where the problem lies, you've misunderstood my rather abstract formulations. I was thinking about the rules as a checklist (I'm also a programmer, so I do things in strict order), in that checklist you must first check you may use stocks before the checklist can tell you you have to give links to those stocks.

 

You won't have to ask the creator of your stocks permission to use them. You're free by right to use them/manipulate them, that's the principle of remixing. 

Edited November 15, 2013 by chimay12321

[sashwilko]

I like most people don't steal others work that is not free. Almost everyone posts links to stocks.  I get the impression that you have no trust in anyone who enters.  

To quote what Welshblue has already said here - "If I want rigid rules and bureaucracy I'll join some BBC sites"

 

I think this may be my last contribution to SOTW also.  I join in for fun and not to be dictated what I can and can't do with my entry.

[nitenurse79]

Forming, storming, norming...

 

I think this is all very healthy discussion. New & improved version of SOTW.

 

You guys are great!

I find it a complete insult to all past host's who maintained a happy and fair competition on here. 

[HELEN]

I agree with NN. And let's just keep everything as is. No changes needed. If you're using stock, just give the links and if using renders, please mention it. That's all there is to it.

[chimay12321]

Well, does the problem lie with me, or?

 

The things I've changed/done aren't my own decisions or something, they're all input from the community (except the you may not change your entry after submission one, but that doesn't count). The discussion we've had in this topic led to some changes in rules, ALL those changes weren't my input. 

 

But I'm starting to feel rather unpleasant :S

 

IMHO, there's never been any need for changes in the rules, except the one that you may not edit your entry after submission. As stated above, all of that was input from the community, so I don't know. Do I have to listen to the community or do I have to take on a very conservative attitude?

 

I've much respect towards the past hosts, that's why I've taken the role of hosting the comp in the first place, to not let the comp die out of respect for the blood, sweat and tears that people put into it. 

Edited November 15, 2013 by chimay12321

[DarkShock]

I agree with NN. And let's just keep everything as is. No changes needed. If you're using stock, just give the links and if using renders, please mention it. That's all there is to it.

That's basically what I said. The only actual issue was providing links to stocks.

[DarkShock]

@chimay: Don't stress. You're not being a bad host at all. It's just an issue that came up and is going out of control. I actually respect the fact that you wanted the opinions of the community before making any changes to the rules.

 

@Sasha: Please continue to enter future SOTW competitions. Don't let this issue take you away from that. Competition is a great way to bring out the best in everyone.

 

Can we all agree to end this tension over the SOTW rules? The issue seems to be resolved. I think we can all move on now and keep this competition fun. Just follow the rules. It's simple.

Edited November 15, 2013 by DarkShock