Semi-OT: Windows 10 & Paint Dot Net

[Marilynx]

So. I am about due to get myself a new computer.

 

Every writer I know hates Windows 10. My husband (who has a new computer with it) hates it. I've played with his computer, and I don't like the awkward interface.

 

Yet I saw that PDN's creator thinks everyone should upgrade to it.

 

And I'm wondering what the reasoning on this is -- pros and cons.

[Ego Eram Reputo]

If you want to run paint.net - get something with Windows 10. Paint.net will only run under Windows (Linux geeks will tell you otherwise - the process is NOT for the fainthearted).

 

Rick recommends Win10 because it is stable, secure and well developed. It has all the bells and whistles Rick needs to make paint.net behave

 

[Reptillian]

Secure is controversial as it is the most targeted OS for malware because of usage level, but it is definitely stable and well developed. I'm not a fan of Microsoft, but it is what it is. But, that being said, Windows 10 is recommended over Windows 7 now. Development has prioritized for Windows 10, and by all means, it is better than Windows 7 in terms of usability.

[Marilynx]

Well, I am currently running Paint Dot Net under Win 7 Pro, and it works well. My current machine cannot upgrade to Win 10 which is a reason why I am considering a new machine.

 

My question is -- what "bells and whistles" does it have that makes it desirable?

[Marilynx]

3 minutes ago, Reptillian said:

Secure is controversial as it is the most targeted OS for malware because of usage level, but it is definitely stable and well developed. I'm not a fan of Microsoft, but it is what it is. But, that being said, Windows 10 is recommended over Windows 7 now. Development has prioritized for Windows 10, and by all means, it is better than Windows 7 in terms of usability.

 

I'm wondering why you think Win 10 is easier to use than Win 7. It's cluttered over with all kinds of "Where do we want you to go today"
garbage and very few ways to customize it to the way I, personally, work, the way I've done with Win 7.

[Reptillian]

6 minutes ago, Marilynx said:

I'm wondering why you think Win 10 is easier to use than Win 7. It's cluttered over with all kinds of "Where do we want you to go today"
garbage and very few ways to customize it to the way I, personally, work, the way I've done with Win 7.

 

I don't get these messages. I changed the start menu with classic start menu and I use Free Launch Bar. To me, it is easier because of the small things such as task view on taskbar, ribbon bar, quick access toolbar, and so on. I know Windows 10 is badly designed in some way like the start menu (which is an abomination). Plus, Windows 10 offers better hardware support for more modern computers. There's also better of things support under Windows 10. There's just no reason for me to switch back to Win 7. If it were up to me, I'd use Linux really, but the main issue that stops me from using it is the lack of applications. At least Paint.NET can be ran under Linux, but it's not quite easy. As a matter of fact, I remember the author of G'MIC tool actually used Paint.NET with plugins under Linux to try to mimic effects for his G'MIC tool.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Reptillian

[Marilynx]

6 hours ago, Reptillian said:

 

I don't get these messages. I changed the start menu with classic start menu and I use Free Launch Bar. To me, it is easier because of the small things such as task view on taskbar, ribbon bar, quick access toolbar, and so on. I know Windows 10 is badly designed in some way like the start menu (which is an abomination). Plus, Windows 10 offers better hardware support for more modern computers. There's also better of things support under Windows 10. There's just no reason for me to switch back to Win 7. If it were up to me, I'd use Linux really, but the main issue that stops me from using it is the lack of applications. At least Paint.NET can be ran under Linux, but it's not quite easy. As a matter of fact, I remember the author of G'MIC tool actually used Paint.NET with plugins to try to mimic effects for his G'MIC tool.

 

I get that you like Win 10 and don't want to switch back. 

 

Linux is of interest, but none of the programs I'm interested in run under it. It's basically irrelevant to this discussion.

 

I don't like the ribbons in things like Word or WordPad.

 

My husband spent three hours tonight swearing at his Win 10 machine because he can't find the settings the way he did on every other Win machine we've had. (My home computing dates back to an Osborne One with 64K of RAM and TWO 183K 5.25" floppy disc drives, plus a 52 character B&W CRT monitor.)

 

I admit that better hardware support for modern computers is a very valuable plus.

 

I also admit that MS's attempt to force Win 10 installations down everyone's throat really didn't impress me. (And I read about too many tragedies with the attempt destroying someone's previously properly running machine.) I'm potentially interested in Win 10, but only as a new installation on a new machine.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by Marilynx
Remove duplicates

[AndrewDavid]

Hi @Marilynx

Welcome to the forum

 

It would take quite a long time to explain the benefits of Win10 through a forum. We are here to discuss Paint.Net. Having said that the best platform to run Paint.Net is on Win10 .

Having been around since the days of 8088's, I have seen the industry grow leaps and bounds. After years of staying with XP - when I finally upgraded my computer 18 months ago, it too came with WIN10. New hardware requires new software - especially at the operating system level. WiFi I believe is the driving force behind the hardware improvements (of which I never use). Many features of WIN10 can be turned off which results in the absence of these pop up messages I heard about earlier in the forum.

 

Think of it as "keeping up with the Jones". New hardware breeds new software that breeds new hardware. The vicious cycle of the IT industry. Thankfully Paint.Net provides an excellent platform for graphics manipulations as well as an excellent support resource here in the forum that even Microsoft can't come close to for supporting Win10. 

 

Memory - graphics - disk space are the benefits of the new computer to mention a few. For me there is no other operating system than Windows due to my collection of windows based software. Your computer should always be based on the software you use most. If it is Windows based - Win10 is the way to go.

 

Think of Paint.Net in the beginning and look how far it has progressed. Now Paint.Net is even in the Windows store. The future is all Windows.

 

Well that's my $.02 cents worth. 

[IRON67]

Upgrading has two main reasons: being able to use the advantages and possibilities of modern hardware and software and to minimize security risks, that not more being patched on an older system because of the end of the patch support.

I still using Windows 7 but 2020 I have to change to Windows 10 or whatever will be actual, including an new computer. Because my old PC (now 8 years) still works fine and I don't need new hardware, I can wait a little bit.

Edited January 2, 2018 by IRON67

[Eli]

I have been waiting to upgrade for several years already and I think I will wait a few more   But I am afraid that in 2020 Desktop PCs will be replaced with Laptops and I do not like Laptops. I love a big keyboard, a mouse and a large screen.

[IRON67]

23 minutes ago, Eli said:

But I am afraid that in 2020 Desktop PCs will be replaced with Laptops and I do not like Laptops.

 

Don't be afraid Have computers led to the extinction of the paper in the office? 2020 there will be still desktop computers.

Edited January 2, 2018 by IRON67

[Ego Eram Reputo]

I still use XP, Win7 and Win10. They all function in much the same way.  Much like cars. If you can drive Win7 you'll be fine with Win10.

 

Tell your husband to use the search tool (magnifying glass icon bottom left of the desktop). Windows key + D to get to the desktop.

[toe_head2001]

Windows 10 is leaps and bounds better than it was when it was first released 2.5 years ago.  You really have to be nitpicky to find big issues with it now.

I think at this point, it just comes down to familiarity with Win10 , rather than having to deal with real tangible issues in the operating system.

 

 

6 hours ago, Eli said:

But I am afraid that in 2020 Desktop PCs will be replaced with Laptops ...

For the average consumer, this has already happened.

Desktop PC aren't going anywhere though.  PC gamers, media professionals, and scientists are keeping the desktop market very healthy.

 

6 hours ago, Eli said:

and I do not like Laptops. I love a big keyboard, a mouse and a large screen.

Same here. Smartphones are even worse.  I don't know how some people use their smartphone as their primary computer; even if it is something like a Galaxy Note.

[Eli]

I guess in 2020 we will be using Windows 11. 

[NinthDesertDude]

I used both 7 and 10 for a good while. There's no dire need to upgrade. Upgrade if you like the pros, the novelty of newness, and know how to customize stuff in the control panel, since you'll want to.

 

Pros

1. Start menu shows recent apps and lists apps in alphabetical order.

2. Searching includes more options from the control panel, which I find useful.

3. Virtual desktops and app store. I don't bother.

4. Pinning apps to the left/right sides of the screen, which was introduced in Windows 8.

5. "Fast startup", though hibernate in Windows 7 does that too.

6. You can change the startup programs from the task manager.

7. System stability.

 

Cons

1. Updates were forced until a system update just before Fall Creators' Update. It will nag you, though.

2. Searching includes web results unless disabled.

3. Tiles in the start menu. You can remove them all to stop it.

4. Feature stability.

 

History and my experience of 'stability'

The first attempt to upgrade failed and corrupted my product key, so I suggest a clean install of Windows 10 with a USB install if that's what you want. My second attempt, which was on a different computer, passed. I later re-installed it to eliminate some strange behavior. List of strange behaviors:

1. After upgrading, wordpad randomly opened itself at any given time. Clean install, it sometimes opens wordpad recovery after closing wordpad. A rare issue.

2. After upgrading, I couldn't view or create new users. No idea why. Clean install, there is no problem.

3. Many upgrades caused associated file types to be forgotten. A fairly common issue.

4. One of the updates locked users out of their accounts until it was patched. Get your updates late, not early.

5. I have lock screen image disabled and to date it always displays a lock screen image. It also displays it after the login prompt.

6. The Fall Creators' update fails to install on my comp. and has to rollback, which makes the upgrade nag annoying.

7. On 1/2/2018 the upgrade prompt forgot to allow me to delay it, so I had to switch users to make it go away. It included the delay option the next time.

8. I've gotten explorer.exe to freeze up before such that it restarted itself or I restarted it.

9. A number of other transitory issues I faced and conquered at some point.

 

The one major pro in stability is that the system itself hasn't fully crashed on me, which did happen to me on Win 7.

 

Things to change on switching

If you choose to switch, here are the things I did to change my experience. I don't like Windows 10 out-of-the-box, but finagling will make it comfortable again. If you don't know what the registry is, for your own safety please ignore these points or follow a step-by-step tutorial for them at your risk.

 

- To disable Cortana and Bing search results in the search menu, define a key called Windows Search with DWORDs called AllowCortana and BingSearchEnabled set to 0. The GUI option to do this was removed in the Anniversary update for some reason.

 

- To disable games and other MS bloatware from (re)installing itself, define a key called CloudContent if it doesn't exist, then a 32-bit DWORD called DisableWindowsConsumerFeatures set to 1.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Joshua Lamusga

[IRON67]

7 hours ago, Joshua Lamusga said:

Pros

1. Start menu shows recent apps and lists apps in alphabetical order.

 

In Win7 thats possible too, but I have disabled this option. I'm very oldfashioned and don't like all the new "Features". The only things of interest for me are full control over (security)updates and a simple design without any animation effect. I really hate this stuff.

[Pixey]

Excellent points @Joshua Lamusga I will be reading this over a few times.

 

I too loved Windows 7 and was extremely aggravated when having to upgrade to Win 10.  The older I get the less I like change.  However, I've become more used to the change-over and, as time passes, I'm learning to get used to it.  Hopefully you and your husband will find it thus too

[IRON67]

Just now, Pixey said:

and was extremely aggravated when having to upgrade to Win 10

 

Because you haven't deactivated the responsible Windows Update. I have seen this message exactly one time Never again.

[Marilynx]

On 1/2/2018 at 6:13 AM, IRON67 said:

Upgrading has two main reasons: being able to use the advantages and possibilities of modern hardware and software and to minimize security risks, that not more being patched on an older system because of the end of the patch support.

I still using Windows 7 but 2020 I have to change to Windows 10 or whatever will be actual, including an new computer. Because my old PC (now 8 years) still works fine and I don't need new hardware, I can wait a little bit.

 

Those are valid points -- using modern hardware. The modern software... eh, they keep putting in bells and whistles which I don't need and which I'm not allowed to turn off or get rid of to give ME more space and speed. (Like my phone -- 3 GB of 16 taken up with a bunch of apps and "features" which I have no use for.) I sometimes think OS developers should be obliged to program for "640 K of RAM -- who could ever need more?" before being allowed to work with modern systems. Learn economy of programming, and not unnecessarily use memory and disc space just because they CAN. (One reason, I admit, I like PDN -- it does a bunch of really cool stuff without taking over tons of resources.)

 

Security, I admit, is always a concern. 

 

 

[IRON67]

52 minutes ago, Marilynx said:

The modern software... eh, they keep putting in bells and whistles

 

True words. I'm installing new software very rarely and only if absolutely necessary. Because of the unwanted sideeffects I'm very conservative. Most people install all stuff that is advertised in their favorite magazine or website.

[Marilynx]

22 hours ago, Ego Eram Reputo said:

I still use XP, Win7 and Win10. They all function in much the same way.  Much like cars. If you can drive Win7 you'll be fine with Win10.

 

Tell your husband to use the search tool (magnifying glass icon bottom left of the desktop). Windows key + D to get to the desktop.

 

I would still be using an XP lap top if the video card hadn't died -- there's a piece of software which does not run under Win 7 or 10 which I miss. (Although the fact that a much-loved graphics program ALSO didn't work under Win 7 is what led me to search for something else, and it's how I found PDN, which does soooo much more than my old one.) Heck, if Word 6 could have handled long file names, I'd still be using it, because there were things I could do with it which cannot be done in later versions. 

 

I'll tell him. Whether he'll remember is another matter. He's a design engineer, used to having an IT department to "do that for him." As an IT department, I'm better than he is, but I'm not a programmer. That, for me, would be a reason for moving to Win 10, if only so I know what the heck he's snarling about when he has a problem -- I can tell him, "Click this, find that, then click the other item." 

 

What I hate is having to make a list of everything on a current computer, and then find the discs or files for them, and reinstall everything before the new machine works the way the old one did.

[Reptillian]

3 hours ago, IRON67 said:

 

In Win7 thats possible too, but I have disabled this option. I'm very oldfashioned and don't like all the new "Features". The only things of interest for me are full control over (security)updates and a simple design without any animation effect. I really hate this stuff.

 

I keep some of the old features via having to download apps I mentioned here. I never really use the new features that much. Bluetooth is a fine addition though. Helps keep away from having to use USB. I would actually be interested into seeing actually useful feature like the ability to copy and paste folder into multiple folders via GUI. And, I don't remember having link folder, and that is something I use. Link folder are just folders which are linked to another folder, and every time you drop to that folder, you are manipulating that folder. I downloaded something for that.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Reptillian

[toe_head2001]

23 minutes ago, Marilynx said:

What I hate is having to make a list of everything on a current computer, and then find the discs or files for them, and reinstall everything before the new machine works the way the old one did.

Why not just install things as needed?  That's what I do with a new installation of an operating system.  Surely you don't need everything on day one.

 

My Windows 7 machine tells me I have 153 programs installed. There's no way I'd ever install all of those in one go. I install something when I need it.

[Marilynx]

3 hours ago, Pixey said:

Excellent points @Joshua Lamusga I will be reading this over a few times.

 

I too loved Windows 7 and was extremely aggravated when having to upgrade to Win 10.  The older I get the less I like change.  However, I've become more used to the change-over and, as time passes, I'm learning to get used to it.  Hopefully you and your husband will find it thus too

 

Yes, I will be reading over that excellent post from Josh Lamusga a few times, as well.

 

I have known three people in the last couple of weeks who have had an update for Win 10 "black screen of death" their machine.  One person's machine was down for two weeks. That's not something I can afford to have happen, which is another reason for hesitation. 

 

The other reason, of course, is all the time it takes to set up a new machine. I don't NEED a new machine, as such; this one is only four years old. I do regular critical backups. But I am not happy with the drop in productivity that getting a new machine entails. That's why I was wondering what the reasoning behind "everyone ought to upgrade to Win 10" was.

[Marilynx]

On 1/2/2018 at 1:52 PM, toe_head2001 said:

Windows 10 is leaps and bounds better than it was when it was first released 2.5 years ago.  You really have to be nitpicky to find big issues with it now.

I think at this point, it just comes down to familiarity with Win10 , rather than having to deal with real tangible issues in the operating system.

 

Well, never had a black screen of death from previous editions of Windows on updates. Yet my co-author has been offline for two weeks because of a failed update which really screwed things up -- and she's not ignorant when it comes to a computer, being an IT person for an international company. Several other people I know had similar debacles.

 

That's reason enough to be cautious, IMO, if you have a stable system under Win 7, not to go leaping for Win 10.