Tuturial snobbery will hurt Paint.net

[Panhead]

ok that would be cool there could be levels of tut forums, so that you know what you are expecting

[BoltBait]

My suggestion (only without the sarcasm):

We have 3 (or more?) tutorial forums: One for submissions, one for advanced and one for beginners.

All tutorials are posted to the submissions forum and when reviewed by a mod gets promoted (moved) to the Advanced or Beginners tutorial forum.

Everyone would still be able to see all posts in all three forums. However, only Submissions would allow new posts. All 3 forums would allow responses to be posted.

[Bobofthedead]

Second. That's a great idea. It would give the n00bs a place to go, it would give the more advanced users a better experience vis a vis tutorials, and, unlike the "rep" idea, it's feasible!

[Andrew D]

Second. That's a great idea. It would give the n00bs a place to go, it would give the more advanced users a better experience vis a vis tutorials, and, unlike the "rep" idea, it's feasible!

I forgot to menton, the rep system has it's downsides. Like people constantly de-repping you, something I'm used to from the NM forums. Mainly because I'm not afraid to tell people what I think of them

Anyways, I like that idea, BB. Also mabye have a tutorial selection called "Clouds + Polar Inversion"

Ok, it was a bad joke

[Panhead]

i have thought about a different forum for begginiers before, i just never said anything. i really like this idea, i hope it works out

[Rubrica]

Nice idea, BB!

[david.atwell]

BB - if we could get that established, I would be ecstatic. What happens to tuts that aren't worth even promoting to Beginner, though? Would they get deleted, or just locked in the Submissions forum?

[Panhead]

or there could be something shameful to be in, like the loser tutorials

[ncfan51]

^I can easily imagine that happening^

Once on another site (where you could + or - someone's "karma"), this one guy was very angry when a member pointed out to him that almost all of his posts were advertising for some RPG, so the guy deducted ~40 karma from the other guy.

[Panhead]

wow that would stink

[georgiabrat1978]

I have felt that there have been harsh remarks made to people also. I'm not sure if it that the "reader" may be insecure about something and is taking what the poster wrote to mean something harmful, or if the poster just isn't relaying or thinking about how their words may or may not be perceived. My guess is a bit of both.

The bad thing about the written word is that it is difficult to express what it is exactly that needs to be conveyed. Either you will end up sounding too technical (a business letter format almost, as mine, I'm sure is reading that way), or you will end up sounding too vague, and possibly implying emotions which are not necessarily true.

What is written might imply a snarky, rude, or snobbish, attitude or emotion, but the poster might not have meant it to read that way.

Try not to take anyone's comments on the Internet too seriously. An imporperly worded sentence can and does imply an unintentional attitude or emotion which isn't there.

I am trying to be diplomatic in explaining what it could be. But then again, there are mean people in this world, and no amount of anonymity on the Internet can hide that.

[taboo]

Taboo, that's a phenomenal and fantastic idea. But it only works when the student is willing to learn and is of the emotional maturity to be able to assume such responsibility. Many of the tutorial authors in question show evidence of neither of these.

To a certain extent, I agree . . . I mean, is a Paint.net forum the place to wean someone from his childhood? Maybe not. By the same token, however, think about the origins of your own artistic/instructive leanings. It takes positive reinforcement and the encouragement to try things by yourself before you can begin to learn, so to speak. It's like the cliché about learning to ride a bicycle (everything always is, for some reason - that's probably why it's a cliché): you probably had help, but you're not really riding the golfanged bicycle until the training-wheels are off and pappy stops holding you up by the back of your seat.

My suggestion (only without the sarcasm):

We have 3 (or more?) tutorial forums: One for submissions, one for advanced and one for beginners.

All tutorials are posted to the submissions forum and when reviewed by a mod gets promoted (moved) to the Advanced or Beginners tutorial forum.

Everyone would still be able to see all posts in all three forums. However, only Submissions would allow new posts. All 3 forums would allow responses to be posted.

I like this idea . . . though I envision an endless series of debates, pleadings, cryings, thumb-suckings, nose-wipings, back-pattings and in general squabblings aplenty . . . all this going on for such a long time that nobody remembers that they want quality rather than rank. Still, I'd be excited to see this solution in action, if the mods don't mind the extra work.

If they don't, what about something that will simply make it clear how many tutorials a member has posted--tutorials that have received responses? Something simple, like this:

Sigh.

[taboo]

he/she is forced to speak with a language more complex than anything he/she could have imagined. The learning curve is quite impressive.

That's only true when the student is given a subject or objective. But many tut in the forum just "do what ever they want" and not "forced to speak with a language more complex than anything he/she could have imagined", As you've put it.

Hmm...let's see. If we apply this case to the forum would be like:

Ash: Teach how to make my saber tooth tiger, do it, do it now! Your grades depends on it!

Noob: .....uh...ok :shock: , Lalala, whatever...I'll make something with radial blur + Polar Inversion. Done!

PDN users 1: This suck.

Noob: This is my 1st tut and I'm a noob and only 13, so don't yell at me.

PDN user 2: yeah don't hate

PDN user 3: I agree with user 1....

And.... round and round we go, when will it stop? Nobody knows... :PolarInversion: :ZoomBlur: :PolarInversion: :ZoomBlur:

All joking aside, Noob does NOT = bad tuts.

So, it's a cool idea in some cases, but might not work here. :?

Ha . . . I just caught this response. Nice point, Ash. But why doesn't PDN User #1 simply peek into the tutorial, identify the fact that it's another Neat Design tutorial, and then, without rising to the occasion, mosey ever onward along his artistic way? He might have a chuckle to himself, thinking, "Ah, Noobs! What would we ever do without them?"

Maybe you'll look in on a Noob tutorial from time to time to see if the water is warm enough, worthy of a soak. But you're experienced enough not to waste too much time lounging around the kiddie pool.

All I'm saying is this: if the Noob is looking for a peer-support forum, he'll find it somewhere, even if it isn't here. You don't need to respond to that sort of thing if you don't want to support it. And if you spy a Noob genuinely trying to work through a tutorial - even if he hasn't yet mastered the art - it will probably benefit everyone in the long run if you appreciate that genuine effort. Eventually, the Noob will get it right and he'll no longer be a Noob. Then he'll post tutorials that everyone will want to see . . . .

[Ash]

We've been around this issue time and time again,

There have been quite a few topic about this and many fights in the tut section.

There is a basic way to fix this....

I hate to keep quoting myself... :?

All I have to say is:

Learn more before trying teach.

Play around with PDN more, It has a lot of power and can do much much more.

Then start posting your work in The Pictorium!

If and when enough users like your work, I'm sure many will ask you for tutorials.

And

noob's should be following tutorials, not writing them.

If only people will listen and follow the ieda...

What's with the 1 few post must be tut anyways??? I don't understand :?

That's why I hardly post tuts anymore (besides the lazy Ash thing)

Ash Post a tut.

Users: Yay!!

Next day tut got push down by 15 tuts about nothing more then a few clicks work... (& Ash has to stop most of the fights :evil: ) :shock:

Ash: :?: :? :?:

[ncfan51]

I like BB's idea but a little different.

At another graphics forum I'm a regular on there are two different tutorial sections:

1. Normal

2. Very Good

For new users who want quality tutorials on how to make something really awesome right off, or want to see what cool things you can make with the program, there is "Very Good" If enough forumers like it, it goes into very good.

For those who have an idea they really like, but not a lot of others are pleased with it, they keep it in Normal. Normal isn't bad, it's just OK, or "normal"

I know this is somewhat like the sticky section, but a lot of good tutorials aren't stickied, and if they all were, the forums would be clogged up with stickies. So, that's my view.

[Blooper]

I think we should have a section for submissions, normal tuts and awesome tuts. In the submission section, each topic has a poll (Normal VS Awesome), and after 15 votes in this poll, this submission is sent to whatever board won.

[Panhead]

ya but if there are other begginers, that are impressed with something, but no one else is then that ruins the purpose of the pole, and the tut might be sent to the wrong forum, mabey we have a poll, but the mods ultimately decide which section it goes into

[Bob]

All tutorials are posted to the submissions forum and when reviewed by a mod gets promoted (moved) to the Advanced or Beginners tutorial forum.

Great idea, but it means a lot of mundane work!

[Andrew D]

All tutorials are posted to the submissions forum and when reviewed by a mod gets promoted (moved) to the Advanced or Beginners tutorial forum.

Great idea, but it means a lot of mundane work!

Not really. If they don't show pictures it usually means it's a rubbish tut

[Ash]

All tutorials are posted to the submissions forum and when reviewed by a mod gets promoted (moved) to the Advanced or Beginners tutorial forum.

Great idea, but it means a lot of mundane work!

Not really. If they don't show pictures it usually means it's a rubbish tut

I have been thinking about if I should just start locking tuts without screen shots.

If one is not willing spend a little time to take screen caps to teach, then don't try to teach.

(unless the tut is not about drawing...let's say..file types tut...etc.)

[ncfan51]

I have been thinking about if I should just start locking tuts without screen shots.

If one is not willing spend a little time to take screen caps to teach, then don't try to teach.

(unless the tut is not about drawing...let's say..file types tut...etc.)

I'm not sure. Some people (me included), start adding images slowly, first for the important steps, and then for the less important ones. I think we should have a 2-3 day deadline for them to put at least a few screenshots for the most important steps, and then, if they fail at that, lock them.

[Panhead]

i like ncfan51's idea, that would be better, i was doing a tutorial on a the iGraphix forum (i dont know if it would work here), and it was irritating to get the screen shots up

[david.atwell]

It's pretty simple. You wouldn't post an incomplete

[david.atwell]

post, why would you post an incomplete tut?

:-)

I'd consider a lack of screenshots to be "incomplete."

[Ash]

It's pretty simple. You wouldn't post an incomplete

Before I scroll down, I was like...What the.... lolz