color wheel suggestion

[pdnnoob]

being a troublemaker and all, I just wanted to throw a request out there to Rick and have the idea available for discussion to see what the rest of the pdners think of it.

As you see above, I modified a screenshot of the color wheel in condensed mode, adding transparency and brightness adjustment as well as some numbers showing the values for RGB and transparency. My reasoning behind this is that currently, I have to expand the color window, blocking more of my picture, to have access to all of the possible colors. What I would like is to be able to get to all the basics without having to bother with all the extra redundancy in the expanded window (ex: hue and saturation are a byproduct of RGB adjustments).

More likely, I'm just too lazy to click "more" and move the window out of my way, but I was just wondering what you guys think.

EDIT: evolution happened

Edited March 15, 2011 by pdnnoob

[pyrochild]

Does it really matter? Just click the "more/less" button when you have made your selections, no other PDN user has an issue with this. It is a free program afterall.. Enjoy it for what it is not what you want it to be

Did you even read the OP? Pdnnoob made it perfectly clear that, yes, it does matter.

Did you ask every PDN user if they have an issue with the Colors window? Obviously not, because I do. I think there is certainly room for improvement in all of the floating windows, but especially the Colors window. Even Rick thinks so:

namespace PaintDotNet.Dialogs
{
   // TODO: rewrite this ... the code is out of control here as it has grown organically,
   //       and it's impossible to maintain. post-3.0
   internal class ColorsForm
       : FloatingToolForm
   {

So what if it is a free program? Does its lack of a price tag mean that it should stop being improved?

[chrisco97]

It is worthy of Photoshop's price tag.

But I think it is a good idea. I have to agree with PDNnoob here.

[barbieq25]

I think it is a very good idea.

[Ego Eram Reputo]

...I have to expand the color window, blocking more of my picture, to have access to all of the possible colors. ....More likely, I'm just too lazy to click "more" and move the window out of my way, but I was just wondering what you guys think.

How about expanding the window (to allow all of the options to be accessed) and then toggling visibility with F8? That way the extra size of the window doesn't cover the canvas.

[BoltBait]

Does it really matter? ... no other PDN user has an issue with this.

I've never liked the color window in the smaller mode. And, the large size is too big.

Here's one I redesigned:

I posted this quite a while ago.

FAKE EDIT: If the tools drop down looked like this:

I'd never have the tools docker window open.

[Goonfella]

While I also agree that the colour window could be improved I do think your version is a bit cluttered Boltbait. If I had to choose I think I would pick pdnoob`s version. I like the idea for the tools menu though.

[pyrochild]

I've always been partial to the "triangle in a circle" type of color chooser:

[pdnnoob]

I've always been partial to the "triangle in a circle" type of color chooser:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/GTK_color_chooser.png

oooo I forgot about those. I actually prefer that as well. Just implement some transparency adjustment and condense the numbers like I did in the original post and you get...

[pdnnoob]

Clearly it is Not an issue with PDN users, otherwise it would not have taken so long for someone to raise the subject.

If you, Pyrochild think there is room for improvement, improve it, why wait until 2011 to do this? there has been many many new versions over the last few years and the color wheel has remained unchanged.

I personally don't see a problem with how it is now (My own opinion, that I am allowed to voice)

Finally did I say it did not need to be improved because it is free? No I didn't! read what I also posted please, don't shoot until you see the target.

I do realize that this is not a serious issue. All I was suggesting was improvements.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but pyro isn't the developer of pdn. That would be Rick

I don't see anything wrong with your opinion, but try not to assume the majority of people think the same even if it seems likely they do. I've personally got into plenty of trouble doing that multiple times...

Finally, is this really something that must be argued over? I was just presenting an idea for improvement, not a solution to a non-existent problem. Relax...and pyro, you can chill too

[Ego Eram Reputo]

I wonder if it's possible to have a tabbed color window? This would save real estate while allowing quick access to as many options that Rick chooses to throw at it. Without making the default window any larger it would easily accomodate three reasonably sized tabs.

I've also wondered why we never see the 'dark side' of the color wheel? It would have the same colors around the circumference, but the centre would be black, not white.

I have a screenshot of what I mean around here somewhere..

[pyrochild]

Clearly it is Not an issue with PDN users, otherwise it would not have taken so long for someone to raise the subject.

OK, so clearly the government of Egypt was not an issue with the people, otherwise it would not have taken so long for someone to rise up.

If you, Pyrochild think there is room for improvement, improve it, why wait until 2011 to do this? there has been many many new versions over the last few years and the color wheel has remained unchanged.

I am not a developer of Paint.NET. I write plugins for Paint.NET, and have no control over the color wheel.

Even if I was in such a position to make whatever changes I see fit willy nilly, you are assuming that I have unlimited free time on my hands or that such a change would be a high priority and low cost. None of these are the case. I have very little free time. Changing things that work "well enough" are a much lower priority than important bug fixes and even new features, as adding features can attract more users and thus potential donators, whereas changing the color wheel probably would have much less impact on Paint.NET's user base. And changing the color wheel would require a lot, a lot of work to implement and test.

I personally don't see a problem with how it is now (My own opinion, that I am allowed to voice)

Yes, you are allowed to voice your opinion. You are not, however, allowed to tell pdnnoob that his opinion does not matter because, and I paraphrase here, "no one else has said anything and it's free anyway so stop complaining."

Finally did I say it did not need to be improved because it is free? No I didn't!

Yes, you did: "It is a free program afterall.. Enjoy it for what it is not what you want it to be"\

Paint.NET would not be what it is without the input of users, telling Rick and past developers what they want it to be. Sometimes, the developer may reject the feedback, as it conflicts with his own idea of what they want it to be (ie, not the GIMP), and other times the developer may have already thought about making such a change, but not considered it a high priority. If many people request something that the developer already wants to do, it will obviously move up in priority.

And in some situations, users may ask about something the developer never even imagined, but immediately upon hearing the idea, decide that it is brilliant.

Software developers are not psychic. Feedback is important. Don't ever tell someone that their opinion doesn't matter.

And don't reply to this post, because I've already derailed the topic of this thread enough. If you absolutely must continue arguing with me, feel free to send a private message, which I will most likely ignore.

[pdnnoob]

[@jack]Relax...and pyro, you can chill too

Serious this time. That discussion is over. I am giving an admin besides pyro my consent to lock and/or delete the topic if said discussion continues. I don't post to have people fight over things, and I will berate any user that doesn't respect that, including mods, admins, and Rick. I will have no tolerance for this behavior whether or not I have the power to make my point.

Back on topic

I wonder if it's possible to have a tabbed color window? This would save real estate while allowing quick access to as many options that Rick chooses to throw at it. Without making the default window any larger it would easily accomodate three reasonably sized tabs.

I've also wondered why we never see the 'dark side' of the color wheel? It would have the same colors around the circumference, but the centre would be black, not white.

I have a screenshot of what I mean around here somewhere..

I actually made a version of the color wheel that includes both (basically the current color wheel, but continues around the outside, gradually fading to black). However, such a color wheel still does not allow for every possible color, which was my reason for the original and second suggestion. I like the tabbed color window as well. Perhaps an option to dock all the windows onto the toolbar as tabs?

[Ego Eram Reputo]

Chill out, guys!

I found that image of the Dark Side of the colorwheel I mentioned above:

 

 

I made it this way:

(pdnnoob you might like to have a look at this, it sounds like what you were playing with...)

/* ========================================================================== */
/* */
/* ColorBall.cs */
/* (c) 2010 Ego Eram Reputo */
/* */
/* Description: New Color Picker? */
/* */
/* ========================================================================== */

// Name: ColorBall
// Author: Ego Eram Reputo
// Submenu: Render
// URL: http://www.getpaint.net/redirect/plugins.html
// Title: Colorball by EER

#region UICode
IntSliderControl Amount1 = 255; // [10,255] Radius
DoubleSliderControl Amount2 = 0; // [0,360] Rotate Clockwise
DoubleSliderControl Amount3 = 0; // [0,360] Lighten Darken
RadioButtonControl Amount4 = 0; // Centre Color | White | Black
CheckboxControl Amount5 = false; // Show as Greyscale
#endregion

// Setup for using a specific blend op
private UnaryPixelOps.Desaturate desaturateOp = new UnaryPixelOps.Desaturate();

void Render(Surface dst, Surface src, Rectangle rect)
{
    // Delete any of these lines you don't need
    Rectangle selection = EnvironmentParameters.SelectionBounds;
    int cx = (int)(((selection.Right - selection.Left) / 2 ) + selection.Left);
    int cy = (int)(((selection.Bottom - selection.Top) / 2 ) + selection.Top);
    int h, s, v = 0;

    for (int y = rect.Top; y < rect.Bottom; y++)
    {
        for (int x = rect.Left; x < rect.Right; x++)
        {
            int dx = ( x - cx );
            int dy = ( y - cy );

            double alpha = Math.Sqrt((dx * dx) + (dy * dy));
            // alpha = radius
            if (alpha > Amount1) // outside radius = transparent pixel
            {
                dst[x,y] = ColorBgra.FromBgra(0,0,0,0);
            }
            else // on or inside radius = color it in
            {
                double theta = Math.Atan2(dy,dx);
                if (theta < 0)
                {
                    theta += 2 * Math.PI;
                }
                h = (int)(((theta /(Math.PI * 2)) * 360.0) - Amount2);
                if (h < 0)
                {
                    h += 360;
                }
                if (Amount4 == 0) // Lighten
                {
                    s = (int)(((360-Amount3) * (alpha / Amount1) * 100/360) + (Amount3*100/360));
                    v = (int)((Amount3 * (alpha / Amount1) * 100/360) + (360-Amount3)*100/360);
                }
                else // Darken
                {
                    s = 100;
                    v = (int)((alpha / Amount1) * 100);
                }
                HsvColor hsvColor = new HsvColor(h,s,v);
                if (Amount5) // Greyscale
                {
                    dst[x,y] = desaturateOp.Apply(ColorBgra.FromColor(hsvColor.ToColor()));
                }
                else
                {
                    dst[x,y] = ColorBgra.FromColor(hsvColor.ToColor());
                }
            }
        }
    }
}

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by toe_head2001

[pyrochild]

Sorry pdnnoob.

[pdnnoob]

Chill out, guys!

I found that image of the Dark Side of the colorwheel I mentioned above:

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd309/NonScott/DarkSide-1.jpg

I made it this way:

(pdnnoob you might like to have a look at this, it sounds like what you were playing with...)

Hidden Content:

/* ========================================================================== */
/* 	*/
/* ColorBall.cs 	*/
/* (c) 2010 Ego Eram Reputo 	*/
/* 	*/
/* Description: New Color Picker? 	*/
/* 	*/
/* ========================================================================== */

// Name: ColorBall
// Author: Ego Eram Reputo
// Submenu: Render
// URL: http://www.getpaint.net/redirect/plugins.html
// Title: Colorball by EER 

#region UICode 
int Amount1 = 255; // [10,255] Radius
double Amount2 = 0; // [0,360] Rotate Clockwise
double Amount3 = 0; // [0,360] Lighten 	Darken
byte Amount4 = 0; // [1] Centre Color | White | Black
bool Amount5 = false; // [0,1] Show as Greyscale
#endregion

// Setup for using a specific blend op 
private UnaryPixelOps.Desaturate desaturateOp = new UnaryPixelOps.Desaturate();

void Render(Surface dst, Surface src, Rectangle rect)
{
// Delete any of these lines you don't need
Rectangle selection = this.EnvironmentParameters.GetSelection(src.Bounds).GetBoundsInt();
int cx = (int)(((selection.Right - selection.Left) / 2 ) + selection.Left);
int cy = (int)(((selection.Bottom - selection.Top) / 2 ) + selection.Top);
int h, s, v = 0;

for (int y = rect.Top; y < rect.Bottom; y++)
{
	for (int x = rect.Left; x < rect.Right; x++)
	{
	int dx = ( x - cx );
	int dy = ( y - cy );

	double alpha = Math.Sqrt((dx * dx) + (dy * dy));
	// alpha = radius
	if (alpha > Amount1)	// outside radius = transparent pixel
	{
	dst[x,y] = ColorBgra.FromBgra(0,0,0,0);
	}
	else 	// on or inside radius = color it in
	{
	double theta = Math.Atan2(dy,dx);
	if (theta < 0)
	{ 
	theta += 2 * Math.PI; 
	}
	h = (int)(((theta /(Math.PI * 2)) * 360.0) - Amount2);
	if (h < 0)
	{
	h += 360;
	}
	if (Amount4 == 0) // Lighten
	{
	s = (int)(((360-Amount3) * (alpha / Amount1) * 100/360) + (Amount3*100/360));	
	v = (int)((Amount3 * (alpha / Amount1) * 100/360) + (360-Amount3)*100/360); 
	}
	else 	// Darken 
	{ 
	s = 100; 
	v = (int)((alpha / Amount1) * 100);	
	}
	HsvColor hsvColor = new HsvColor(h,s,v);
	if (Amount5)	// Greyscale
	{
	dst[x,y] = desaturateOp.Apply(ColorBgra.FromColor(hsvColor.ToColor()));	
	}
	else
	{
	dst[x,y] = ColorBgra.FromColor(hsvColor.ToColor());
	}
	}
	}
}
}

Well, I wasn't playing with code at all, that's for sure. I don't even know how to view what this script does XD What I was playing with was this program called "Paint.net"...

[Ego Eram Reputo]

Cut & paste the code into Codelab and then Build it - it gets its own plugin my Preciousssss...., (look for it in the Render menu).

[chrisco97]

I wonder if it's possible to have a tabbed color window? This would save real estate while allowing quick access to as many options that Rick chooses to throw at it. Without making the default window any larger it would easily accomodate three reasonably sized tabs.

That would be AWESOME. That would definately work.

[pyrochild]

Ugh tabs on the color window? No no no.

[W@@dy]

I'm all for making it cleaner and getting rid of the expansion button it has now.

It never really killed me inside, but I'd love to make it all on one small window.

I'd agree that your image seems a little too compact/cluttered though.

I'm not exactly particular to the triangle theme, but I can see myself getting used to it over time, and it certainly is the cleanest interface I've seen so far

[Ego Eram Reputo]

Ugh tabs on the color window? No no no.

Why not? Think if it as Color Windows' own personal ribbon

[pdnnoob]

At the moment, I never actually use the color wheel because it is missing around 95% of all the possible colors. If that was fixed, I can see myself never actually expanding the color window anymore. However, using the mouse to choose the color isn't the most accurate method, so the expanded window is still needed.

@EER thanks! I think it is clear now, however, that I'm no programmer. Some day, I'll have to learn to program...I just might start here now that I have the resources

[pyrochild]

Why not? Think if it as Color Windows' own personal ribbon

It is an unnecessary complication and visual clutter. The advantage would be miniscule, allowing only an additional brightness level per tab page, compared to the "triangle-circle" or other better solutions which allow a full range of hue, saturation, and brightness in a single control.

And uglyyyyyyyy.

But then, I find all the floating tool windows to be ugly and constantly in the way.

[BoltBait]

That's sexy.

[chrisco97]

Well, I love the idea of tabs...but other than that, the triangle theme is nice.