point people in the right direction

[LiquidCore]

I got an idea... when you see somebody new to the forums start your replie to there messege by pointing them toward the rules and search but make sue you state that they did nothing wrong, unless they did

thanks!

[Aakanaar]

The only problem I would have with that, is I havn't got everybody memorized, and wouldn't know for the most part who is new and who isn't.

Ok. yea, i could check the joined date.. but I almost never look at that. I almost never look at the post date either.. unless i searched for a topic.

[Rick Brewster]

Yes but given the volume of posts by people who need to be corrected, you have to understand that the people doing the correcting get tired of it and progressively more terse over time.

[LiquidCore]

@aakanaar Look at how many posts they have if its 1 or maybe even 2 just reply with a link

@Rick yeah thats why you have everybody do it that way we wont need corecting because they know the rules and how things work

[barkbark00]

How about sending them the rules in the account verification email?

[david.atwell]

The Rules are practically impossible to be missed nowadays. The only excuse is laziness, which is absolutely inexcusable. I used to be a lot friendlier and more forgiving than I am nowadays...and I understand Ash and some of the other, terser users on the forum now. I definitely support locking threads that could be answered by one of the top ten searchpaint.net results.

[Yata]

Rick, may I suggest something?

Under the General Configuration in the admin panel, where you put your signature to the email, can you add links to the rules and other sorts of important threads? It may help.

[Myrddin]

I completely agree with david and Rick, I've got to the point where I'm less likely to help anybody new or even post a link to the rules, I just feel that there shouldn't be a need to do so. I also don't want people who do need genuine help to dread seeing my name after their post knowing that for the past five or so topics I've said "You're title is bad, read the Rules" etc.. People are impatient as well as lazy, they want the answers straight away and can't be bothered to search or consider reading the rules before posting and it's because these days we're so used to having the information we want at our fingertips.

I've also noticed a decrease in experimenting and self-help over the last few months. New users are coming on asking the most basic of questions which could have been found if they thought about it or moved their cursor over a few more pixels. Now, I know that not everybody is computer/graphic literate and I'm not claiming incompetence on their part, but seriously, come on just look around first and get a feel for the program before assuming you can't do it. Looking in the help files first would help immensely but then that's bringing me back on to my impatient point.

[david.atwell]

I agree, Myrddin. It makes me less likely to help someone if I know they're just using me as a replacement for search.

I'm thinking maybe we should have a special thread as a sort of task force for people who want to help new users, detailing how to help, what to say, what not to say; that way, we won't have moments in which we're stepping over each other (one person says "Use Search," the other gives them a link). It would make us more consistent, and hopefully keep people from overwhelming us with requests like we keep seeing recently.

As for rules, I don't know how we can fix it. Maybe big, bold letters in the verification email that say "IF YOU POST WITHOUT READING THE RULES, YOUR POST WILL BE LOCKED AND YOU WILL BE BANNED FOR TWENTY-FOUR HOURS." Heck, it doesn't even have to be true :-)

[Crazy Man Dan]

If I read the specs correctly, whenever Forumer upgrades to PHPBB 3, temporary bans like that will be available. :twisted:

Oh.. Um... Anyway until then, though, no no no. Saying one thing and doing another will give one the nickname flip-flopper... :wink:

[david.atwell]

Wouldn't want to sound like a certain 2004 Presidential Candidate...

I didn't know that a tempoban wasn't possible already.

Anyway, what about the other part of the idea? A unified front?

[shootingstarswishingheart]

PHPBB 3? I must be out of it... I am a mod on another Forumer site, but admit, we aren't very active in the summertime there... I guess I better get back on my game huh.

[MattBlackLamb]

This is why I suggested a Welcome / N00bs thread. So that there isn't loads of pointless threads from people who are asking very basic questions. If there's a Welcome thread the 1st post in it can point people towards the rules & the search engine. Admittedly, if the thread gets to more than about 3 pages people aren't likely to read the 1st page, they'll just skip to the last page & post their questions.

[Crazy Man Dan]

@david: So, a thread that details how to help someone who posts something that will be locked as soon as a mod sees it.

Something like: (Please note that these are not official. I'm just makin' stuff up as I go... :wink:

0) The most important rule:

When replying to someone who has obviously not read or understood The Rules, use the Preview button. There is a frame, usually at the bottom of the window in each forum skin, that shows the current posts in that thread. If someone has already responded to that user with the same admonition you are about to give them, cancel your posting and return to your browsing. It's great that you tried to help, but having multiple posts all telling rule-breakers to not break the rules makes the forum look like a bunch of pounce-y tight wads, just waiting for someone upon whom to unleash their awesome nit-picking abilities.

The moderators will clean up whatever needs to be cleaned when they see it, as well as give any pointers necessary. If your post isn't adding anything further to the thread that hasn't been mentioned before, there's no need for your reply.

1) For non-searchers:

If you come upon a post asking a question you know has already been answered, post a link to the search page with an admonition to use Search. For example, the code snippet below.

As is stated in the [url=http://paintdotnet.12.forumer.com/viewforum.php?f=20]Forum Rules[/url], please use [url=http://searchpaint.net/]Search[/url] before creating a new topic.

It is often wise to use the Search yourself beforehand to ensure that the information they are seeking can be easily found by the search engine using keywords that appear in their post, because chances are that, if they do try searching after you tell them to, those are the words they would use. If the information is not readily apparent (say, on the first two pages) using the keywords they mentioned, it would be friendly and helpful to include keywords that would give them the results they want.

If you're feeling exorbitantly friendly, you can even add in a link to the post that gives them their answer (since you already found it). That way, the regular forum users will look like nice people, leaving the moderators to look like the jerks when they lock it as per The Rules' warning.

2) For Generic Title posters:

Answer their question while you can, because their thread will be closed once a moderator sees it. You can also include an admonition to read The Rules if you so desire, but a moderator will provide this admonition as the reason why the thread has been closed before they close it if it has not been stated previously.

3) For Grievous rule breakers:

If you come across a post that is intensely hateful, severely vulgar, pornographic, or otherwise inappropriate, return to the main page and look at the list of logged in users to see if a mod is online at the time.

If there is a moderator online, wait a few minutes. If it is not cleaned up within approximately ten minutes, PM (one of) the moderator(s) logged in at the time with a link to the post, because chances are they haven't seen it yet. It would also be helpful to reply to the inappropriate post with a simple message "PM'D" before you PM the moderator as notification to other studious users that someone has already notified a mod. That way, the mod won't get a flood of seven PMs all for the same post.

And most importantly, wash your brain out after you look at it, because we don't want you falling to the Dark Side. :wink:

[LiquidCore]

I think Everybody Should Copy that Snippet anto a easily reachable text document so that they can easily post it when people ARE doing something wrong =) Cheers

How do i wash my brain out?!?!?!

[david.atwell]

That's fantastic! Precisely what I was thinking. I can think of a couple other clarifications, such as:

"Don't post to display your knowledge. Remember, we're all here to help each other, not to build up our own egos: if you're just posting to show off how smart you are and your post doesn't add anything to the thread, you're just going to come across as arrogant."

and maybe:

"Remember not to bite the newbies." This could reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:BITE.

You might also want to include a note about what to do when something is posted in the wrong forum, using ALL CAPS/1337 $p33k/etc.

*shrug* the point of all this is just to make the mods' lives easier. Whatever you think would be good to include :-) But I think it would be helpful.

[Crazy Man Dan]

Yeah, as I said, it's nothing official, as I'd have to talk to my fellow moderators to make sure they want to be PMed about things and such.

But, I'll have to pick up this discussion again later. I have to take off for a tutoring session - I need to help someone become friends with PhotoShop. >_>

*runs*

[LiquidCore]

*laughs at the thought of CMD saying "RANDOM NAME this is photoshop, Photoshop this is RANDOM NAME"*

What are you some kind of computer counselor?!?

[david.atwell]

He's a genius is what he is...

[LiquidCore]

Yeah, it must run in his blood =)

Oops you know the topics almost dead when you start going off topic =)

[Bob]

When replying to someone who has obviously not read or understood The Rules,

What about... not replying to them?

They will be locked a couple minutes later, so I don't really see the point.

PM-ing the mod, why not.

[Crazy Man Dan]

Actually, Bob, my first reply was going to point to the Don't do the Mod's Job rule, but it doesn't seem to be in The Rules anymore...

If you feel like to reply to a topic you know will be locked, it should help the person somewhat or try to answer their question. Sometimes the mods don't have the time to find the answer to a thread in need of locking to give a helpful reply regarding their question before they lock it. If you have the extra time to help out while it's still open, they'll love you and hate me. :wink:

Or, you could just not reply to it.

Regarding the PhotoShop tutoring:

I'm a professional graphic designer, so I know my way around a variety of programs, including PhotoShop. A student at the school I attend is presently in an Intro to Graphic Design class which covers PhotoShop and Illustrator. I don't use those programs on a regular basis (GIMP and Inkscape for me ), but I know them full well enough to be a tutor for the intro-level course.

[nomad_1_usa]

How about a Newbies forum, Un-moderated.

Post a single sticky with an admonition that this is not a moderated forum, and is a place where newbies can help each other. It could include pertinent links, with a brief description for each link.

Someone will likely be more helpful than all the rest, and could become more or less a defacto moderator, and call for help, if needed.

Those with a little know-how, could lead those with no know-how, and allow a shorter learning curve for all. In fact, those with a little know how, might end up learning from those that they helped along the way, since each learning curve is different.

The Newbies forum would be an excellent place to learn the ground rules, for the other forums, "to minimize the odds of getting a spanking", on the big board.

Hope I'm not out of line, with this.

[Crazy Man Dan]

The thing is, the only people that get a "spanking" are the ones who don't read The Rules. The Rules is now the top post out on the big board for everyone to see, so people should really check 'em out.

People here on the big board are more than willing to help any and all with questions, provided they do their homework (a.k.a. search first), speak cogently, and bake us cookies. Unfortunately, that last one it more of a suggestion...

So, all the "newbies" need do is abide by the rules of conduct laid out in The Rules and they have nothing to fear! Everyone is welcome to our happy little land as long as they don't try to pee in our pool. You pee in our pool, you get a spanking... As soon as you're done, of course... <_<

Hope I'm not out of line, with this.

You're never out of line speaking your mind and proposing a valid suggestion, as long as your mind isn't filled with profanity. :wink:

[nomad_1_usa]

The thing is, the only people that get a "spanking" are the ones who don't read The Rules. The Rules is now the top post out on the big board for everyone to see, so people should really check 'em out.

People here on the big board are more than willing to help any and all with questions, provided they do their homework (a.k.a. search first), speak cogently, and bake us cookies. Unfortunately, that last one it more of a suggestion...

So, all the "newbies" need do is abide by the rules of conduct laid out in The Rules and they have nothing to fear! Everyone is welcome to our happy little land as long as they don't try to pee in our pool. You pee in our pool, you get a spanking... As soon as you're done, of course... <_<

Hope I'm not out of line, with this.

You're never out of line speaking your mind and proposing a valid suggestion, as long as your mind isn't filled with profanity. :wink:

You're never out of line speaking your mind and proposing a valid suggestion, as long as your mind isn't filled with profanity. :wink:

I agree, profanity is not cool.

I don't cook, but Golden Corral has cookies.