usability suggestions

[Sirisian]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but it would make things much easier if every operation created a new layer. So placing text would make a new text layer, a line a new line layer, etc. Also keep all of the objects as shapes in their own layer until they are flatted would make things easier. Separate the line from the curve so they are distinct objects. This would allow someone to place a line then move the endpoints around without curving the object or having to start from scratch. Also until text is "flattened" to an image layer keep it as an object in its own layer. This would allow someone to go back and move around the text later or double click and edit it. The pencil tool should add pixels to the current selected layer if it's an image layer. If it's not then it should create a new layer. As mentioned a user could select and flatten layers into image layers.

In order to fully use the layers one should be able shift click them or shift+up/down to multi-select them. Then allow the user to flatten the layers or drag single or groups up and down in depth.

Also windows. I noticed the history/layers/etc can snap to the edges. They are in the way. It would be nice to dock them into the program. Place the tools on the left side, and the primary/secondary color pickers on the left side blow the tools as two color pickers. The layers and history can go on the right side.

These changes would greatly increase the usability of the program and make it on par with current image editors.

[Crimson]

I agree with you for certain operations. Pasting in, IMO, should automatically create a new layer, as well as text. However, a new layer for every operation seems to be a little overkill, and would greatly decrease performance especially if you don't have that much RAM.

[Sirisian]

However, a new layer for every operation seems to be a little overkill, and would greatly decrease performance especially if you don't have that much RAM.

Actually if implemented correctly (I happen to be a programmer) would cost very little. Also my friend was a bit confused with that "every operation" statement. Say you have selected a piece of text and want to edit it. You simply flatten it and it turns into an image layer. If you choose a brush or a pencil tool and draw while you have an image layer selected it works on that layer. Like I said if implemented correctly the cost is trivial. (By the way all of these ideas are taken from Adobe Fireworks).

[Simon Brown]

Also until text is "flattened" to an image layer keep it as an object in its own layer. This would allow someone to go back and move around the text later or double click and edit it.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3455

Also windows. I noticed the history/layers/etc can snap to the edges. They are in the way. It would be nice to dock them into the program.

Already suggested: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=21749

Actually if implemented correctly (I happen to be a programmer) would cost very little

...but you didn't architect Paint.NET.

Not sure if this has been mentioned but it would make things much easier if every operation created a new layer. So placing text would make a new text layer, a line a new line layer, etc.

Personally I find it hard to manage layers in Fireworks for that reason. Every time you use, say, the brush tool, it creates a new layer and if you just want to use it to make a quick touch you now have some layers to flatten or manage.

[Sirisian]

Also windows. I noticed the history/layers/etc can snap to the edges. They are in the way. It would be nice to dock them into the program.

Already suggested: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=21749

Ah cool a ribbon interface sounds like it'll work. Not as specialized as just docking the windows cleanly into the program, but I can see how a ribbon would work. (I already resized the window and put the windows outside the program, it's actually why I pointed out the docking thing since it's kind of awkward since I prefer having programs fullscreen when working).

Actually if implemented correctly (I happen to be a programmer) would cost very little

...but you didn't architect Paint.NET.

No, that is correct. I'm just using the program. I was referring to the previous posters comment which said that it would "decrease performance". I wasn't sure where he got this information, unless the lead programmer for paint.net has mentioned it in the past?

Not sure if this has been mentioned but it would make things much easier if every operation created a new layer. So placing text would make a new text layer, a line a new line layer, etc.

Personally I find it hard to manage layers in Fireworks for that reason. Every time you use, say, the brush tool, it creates a new layer and if you just want to use it to make a quick touch you now have some layers to flatten or manage.

But it doesn't. Using an image layer, for instance a picture, and applying the brush to it works on the current image layer. This is the intuitive operation and doesn't create a new layer. I explained this in my previous post to clarify.

(If you have fireworks you can test this by drawing with the pencil tool then with the same layer selected drawing with the brush. They are on the same "image" layer and no extra layers are created).

[BoltBait]

However, a new layer for every operation seems to be a little overkill, and would greatly decrease performance especially if you don't have that much RAM.

Actually if implemented correctly (I happen to be a programmer) would cost very little. Also my friend was a bit confused with that "every operation" statement. Say you have selected a piece of text and want to edit it. You simply flatten it and it turns into an image layer. If you choose a brush or a pencil tool and draw while you have an image layer selected it works on that layer. Like I said if implemented correctly the cost is trivial. (By the way all of these ideas are taken from Adobe Fireworks).

What you are describing is a vector drawing program. Perhaps, you need Inkscape instead of Paint.NET.

[Sirisian]

However, a new layer for every operation seems to be a little overkill, and would greatly decrease performance especially if you don't have that much RAM.

Actually if implemented correctly (I happen to be a programmer) would cost very little. Also my friend was a bit confused with that "every operation" statement. Say you have selected a piece of text and want to edit it. You simply flatten it and it turns into an image layer. If you choose a brush or a pencil tool and draw while you have an image layer selected it works on that layer. Like I said if implemented correctly the cost is trivial. (By the way all of these ideas are taken from Adobe Fireworks).

What you are describing is a vector drawing program. Perhaps, you need Inkscape instead of Paint.NET.

Not really. What I described is just another way to handle the current layer design. Currently everything you draw whether it's text/pencil/brushes happens on the same layer. I'm suggesting that lines and curves remain editable existing in their own layer until flattened into images and that "image" layers are created when one tries to draw while a non-image layer is selected. This system is just a slight variation of the current design as you can see since after you draw a line it just loses it's editable abilities and gets flattened into the image layer. By keeping it editable as a separate layer it would make the program much more flexible by not forcing the user to make permanent changes until they're ready.

[Rick Brewster]

Not gonna happen.

[Frontcannon]

Ability to re-edit text, or "text layers", or some variation thereof -- This an enormous work item due to other plumbing that must be in place to enable it. This falls into the "yes I agree, and hopefully we'll have it someday." No ETA, and definitely a post-4.0 feature.

What?

[david.atwell]

Careful, frontcannon.

[Sirisian]

Not gonna happen.

Would you care to explain why? (I'm actually curious how interface designers think). Do you believe that it would hurt the usability of the program, or think it's not worth implementing? Have you gotten negative feedback about a similar feature?

[Simon Brown]

Ability to re-edit text, or "text layers", or some variation thereof -- This an enormous work item due to other plumbing that must be in place to enable it. This falls into the "yes I agree, and hopefully we'll have it someday." No ETA, and definitely a post-4.0 feature.

What?

My understanding is that he's planning to implement editable text, but isn't prepared to go any further than that.