Freezing Issue

DieselJC · June 20, 2022

Been having freezing issues with PDN..it freezes to the point of I have to manually power off the PC...Cntrl/Alt/Tab does nothing. I have been monitoring PDN in task manager while I am using it and it's using high and very high power. I uninstalled and re-installed it, I also checked for plugin errors. BBChart.dll , ImPS,EPS,AI.Open File Type and ScriptLab.dll. I went in and removed those but it still freezes and uses high and very high power. Are there any settings I can use to help the performance or any ideas troubleshooting?

System specs:

AMD FX6300 4.1 Ghz

Win 10 64Bit

32MB 1600Mhz RAM

500GB SSD (Windows and PDN are Installed here)

1TB HDD

GeForce GTX 1070 8GB

1920x1080 144hz

CPU is liqiud cooled so never goes above 36deg

GPU is fan cooled stays around 55 deg

PC is set to "Prefer Maximum Performance"

Any help/tips would be appreciated.

JC

toe_head2001 · June 20, 2022

Please post the diagnostic information found within paint.net.

Settings -> Diagnostics -> Copy to clipboard.

DieselJC · June 20, 2022

Application paint.net 4.3.11 (Stable 4.311.8179.42221)
Build Date Tuesday, May 24, 2022
Install type Classic

Hardware accelerated rendering (GPU) False
Remote session False
Animations False
DPI 96 (1.00x scale)
Language en-US

OS Windows 10 Home x64 (10.0.19044.0)
Runtime .NET 6.0.5 x64
Physical Memory 32,725 MB

CPU AMD FX(tm)-6300 Six-Core Processor
Speed ~3516 MHz
Cores / Threads 3 / 6
Features SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4_1, SSE4_2, AVX

Video Card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070
Dedicated Video RAM 8,088 MB
Dedicated System RAM 0 MB
Shared System RAM 16,362 MB
Vendor ID 0x10DE
Device ID 0x1B81
Subsystem ID 0x62763842
Revision 161
LUID 0x0000C4E9
Flags AcgCompatible, SupportMonitoredFences, KeyedMutexConformance
Graphics Preemption PixelBoundary
Compute Preemption DispatchBoundary
Outputs 2
Feature Level Direct3D_12_1
DXGI Formats A8_UNorm, B8G8R8A8_UNorm, R16G16B16A16_UNorm, R16G16B16A16_Float, R32G32B32A32_Float
Buffer Precision UNorm8bpc, UNorm8bpcSrgb, UNorm16bpc, Float16bpc, Float32bpc
Maximum Bitmap Size 16384

Video Card Microsoft Basic Render Driver
Dedicated Video RAM 0 MB
Dedicated System RAM 0 MB
Shared System RAM 16,362 MB
Vendor ID 0x1414
Device ID 0x008C
Subsystem ID 0x00000000
Revision 0
LUID 0x0000D0C5
Flags Software, AcgCompatible, SupportMonitoredFences, KeyedMutexConformance
Graphics Preemption InstructionBoundary
Compute Preemption InstructionBoundary
Outputs 0
Feature Level Direct3D_12_1
DXGI Formats A8_UNorm, B8G8R8A8_UNorm, R16G16B16A16_UNorm, R16G16B16A16_Float, R32G32B32A32_Float
Buffer Precision UNorm8bpc, UNorm8bpcSrgb, UNorm16bpc, Float16bpc, Float32bpc
Maximum Bitmap Size 8388608

Managed assemblies 165
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Borders N' Shapes .\Effects\Borders N' Shapes.dll, Version=4.0.4642.26476
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Alpha_to_255 .\Effects\Alpha_to_255.dll, Version=1.0.4452.22782
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PaintDotNet.Plugins.Compatibility .\PaintDotNet.Plugins.Compatibility.dll, Version=4.311.8179.42221
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Pastel .\Effects\Pastel.dll, Version=4.6.7358.38877
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Native modules 238
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ntdll.dll C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\ntdll.dll, version=10.0.19041.1741 (WinBuild.160101.0800)
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IMM32.DLL C:\WINDOWS\System32\IMM32.DLL, version=10.0.19041.546 (WinBuild.160101.0800)
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OLEAUT32.dll C:\WINDOWS\System32\OLEAUT32.dll, version=10.0.19041.985 (WinBuild.160101.0800)
bcryptPrimitives.dll C:\WINDOWS\System32\bcryptPrimitives.dll, version=10.0.19041.1415 (WinBuild.160101.0800)
System.Private.CoreLib.dll .\System.Private.CoreLib.dll, version=6.0.522.21309
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kernel.appcore.dll C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\kernel.appcore.dll, version=10.0.19041.546 (WinBuild.160101.0800)
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uxtheme.dll C:\WINDOWS\system32\uxtheme.dll, version=10.0.19041.1 (WinBuild.160101.0800)
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PaintDotNet.Base.dll .\PaintDotNet.Base.dll, version=4.311.8179.42221
System.Diagnostics.Process.dll .\System.Diagnostics.Process.dll, version=6.0.522.21309
PaintDotNet.SystemLayer.dll .\PaintDotNet.SystemLayer.dll, version=4.311.8179.42221
TerraFX.Interop.Windows.dll .\TerraFX.Interop.Windows.dll, version=10.0.20348.0
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Rick Brewster · June 20, 2022

Possibly this?

Rick Brewster · June 20, 2022

Also why do you have Hardware Accelerated Rendering disabled? You have a perfectly good GPU, you're destroying performance by disabling that. This will become very important in the next big update.

Rick Brewster · June 20, 2022

It's also very important to know the size (in pixels) of images you're working with, and how many layers. As far as we know you're working with images that are just way too big for your CPU to handle (the AMD FX processors are actually very slow).

DieselJC · June 20, 2022

Thanks for the reply Rick, I went into defender and allowed PDN...it wasn't on the list so I added it manually to allow it. I'll try tomorrow as I have some work I need to do and see what happens. Thanks again for the reply. I'll post back what happens and if that helped/solved the issue.

JC

DieselJC · June 20, 2022

11 minutes ago, Rick Brewster said:

Also why do you have Hardware Accelerated Rendering disabled? You have a perfectly good GPU, you're destroying performance by disabling that. This will become very important in the next big update.

I disabled that thinking it might help and of course it didn't so I will re-enable it.

Yeah a new MB RAM and CPU are on my wish list. Anything else in that list I should leave off or turn on?

DieselJC · June 20, 2022

This is what I am working with 4096x4096 Its a template for a 3d in game model and I just "skin" it. This one wil be a Kwik Trip Fuel Tanker skin for the game American Truck Simulator.I hide the template then flatten it and save it as a dds so the game can read it.

AndrewDavid · June 20, 2022

Hi @DieselJC

Are you missing DdsFileTypePlusIO_x64.dll ?

Download the Filetype plugin to see the three files required for DDS files.

Hope this helps

DieselJC · June 20, 2022

9 hours ago, AndrewDavid said:

Hi @DieselJC

Are you missing DdsFileTypePlusIO_x64.dll ?

Download the Filetype plugin to see the three files required for DDS files.

Hope this helps

Sorry where would I find that plugin?

JC

ReMake · June 20, 2022

https://forums.getpaint.net/topic/111731-dds-filetype-plus-04-11-2022/

Rick Brewster · June 20, 2022

I don't think the DDS files have anything to do with this, @AndrewDavid @ReMake

Rick Brewster · June 21, 2022

If you're still having freezing / high CPU usage, you can capture something called a "performance trace": https://forums.getpaint.net/topic/113249-how-to-submit-a-performance-trace/

It's a little involved, but it should show me exactly where in my code the CPU usage is happening. From there I should be able to tell you if it's "normal" or if there's something wrong that I need to fix.

(those performance traces are no joke -- it's what Microsoft uses for their own performance telemetry/analysis systems, like for Windows)

DieselJC · June 21, 2022

6 hours ago, Rick Brewster said:

I don't think the DDS files have anything to do with this, @AndrewDavid @ReMake

Yeah I checked that forum post about the dds file type and it says that the newer versions include that so I didn't download it.

DieselJC · June 21, 2022

1 hour ago, Rick Brewster said:

If you're still having freezing / high CPU usage, you can capture something called a "performance trace": https://forums.getpaint.net/topic/113249-how-to-submit-a-performance-trace/

It's a little involved, but it should show me exactly where in my code the CPU usage is happening. From there I should be able to tell you if it's "normal" or if there's something wrong that I need to fix.

(those performance traces are no joke -- it's what Microsoft uses for their own performance telemetry/analysis systems, like for Windows)

I'm doing some stuff tonight with PDN so I will keep an eye on it. I did allow it through Microsoft defender so it definitely seems to start up faster. Thats weird that defender would hamper that isn't it? You'd think if it flagged the program I would get a notification or it just wouldn't allow it to start. Also should I run PDN as an administrator?

JC

BoltBait · June 21, 2022

1 hour ago, DieselJC said:

should I run PDN as an administrator?

No

DieselJC · June 21, 2022

20 hours ago, Rick Brewster said:

If you're still having freezing / high CPU usage, you can capture something called a "performance trace": https://forums.getpaint.net/topic/113249-how-to-submit-a-performance-trace/

It's a little involved, but it should show me exactly where in my code the CPU usage is happening. From there I should be able to tell you if it's "normal" or if there's something wrong that I need to fix.

(those performance traces are no joke -- it's what Microsoft uses for their own performance telemetry/analysis systems, like for Windows)

I'll run that performance trace this week if I have time and get back to you as I'm still having issues.

Thanks for the reply.

JC

Rick Brewster · June 22, 2022

@DieselJC, I didn't see anything out of the ordinary in the performance trace you sent me. It looks like PDN is using a lot of memory, at least 15GB, so it's probably the case that the image(s) you're working with are just too much for your CPU to comfortably handle.

The AMD FX processors are notorious for having very poor performance. They had a weird architecture where every 2 cores shares a single floating point "core". So performance for many things related to graphics, gaming, rendering, etc. are significantly hampered. If I remember my history correctly, AMD was betting on those kinds of workloads moving to the GPU, and they just made the wrong bet (many things did move to the GPU, but the CPU still remained very important, even more so). That's why Intel was able to basically destroy them for much of the 2010s until Ryzen finally showed up.

DieselJC · June 23, 2022

9 hours ago, Rick Brewster said:

@DieselJC, I didn't see anything out of the ordinary in the performance trace you sent me. It looks like PDN is using a lot of memory, at least 15GB, so it's probably the case that the image(s) you're working with are just too much for your CPU to comfortably handle.

The AMD FX processors are notorious for having very poor performance. They had a weird architecture where every 2 cores shares a single floating point "core". So performance for many things related to graphics, gaming, rendering, etc. are significantly hampered. If I remember my history correctly, AMD was betting on those kinds of workloads moving to the GPU, and they just made the wrong bet (many things did move to the GPU, but the CPU still remained very important, even more so). That's why Intel was able to basically destroy them for much of the 2010s until Ryzen finally showed up.

Thanks for the heads up on the WPR, yeah I'm shopping for a new MB RAM and CPU at the moment but it may by a bit before I can get the set up I want. Thanks again for the reply much appreciated.

JC

Rick Brewster · June 23, 2022

Well the good news is that the current crop of CPUs are all quite capable. Both AMD and Intel have very strong offerings.

DieselJC · June 28, 2022

On 6/22/2022 at 10:28 PM, Rick Brewster said:

Well the good news is that the current crop of CPUs are all quite capable. Both AMD and Intel have very strong offerings.

I am looking at a new MB and CPU..an AMD Ryzen 5 5000 series 4.2 Ghz. and an MSI MB.

Would 16GB of RAM be good to run PDN on or do I need to go to 32?

Rick Brewster · June 28, 2022

If you can comfortably afford 32GB then definitely get 32GB. You're already using a lot of RAM for your Paint.NET needs, and you already have 32GB in your current system. Going to 16GB would be a step down, and invite further performance issues even with the new CPU and other parts.

My general advice for RAM is to buy as much as you can comfortably afford. 64GB would give you more room to grow, it's just about whether you can justify the cost. You can also get 2 x 16GB memory DIMMs now which should enable you to add another 2 x 16GB DIMMs later on (assuming the motherboard has 4 DIMM slots, which most do, unless they're ITX (small)).

Freezing Issue

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