Jump to content

Suggestion: Developer Central


Recommended Posts

I dont know how many of you read my Rant last night about the stranglement of smaller plugin developers by closed off portions of this forum, but this thread is the outcome of it all.

My suggestion is to integrate the General Coding/ Programming, Effects API/ Programming, and the File Format API/ Programming sections of these forums into a central section. Something like Developer Central. There plugin authors can, IF THEY CHOOSE, share their source, colloborate on community projects, ask for help in the Effects API and File Format API, as well as get updates in code changes to Paint.NET. Let me explain further what I am trying to get done:

First of all, I think publishing the source side by side of the plugins in the Plugins section loses a lot of focus on the whole fact that about fifty percent of the plugins are open source. If a Developer Central was to be opened and source could be shared I think a lot more notice and attention would be brought to the work our Plugin Authors have put in to making Paint.NET better.

As well, community projects are hidden from the forum. I can understand Rick wanting to have a section to get closer feedback on releases of Paint.NET, but why keep plugin developement hidden? Both Sabrown, Pyjo, and Curtis look to be very promising in their programming abilities yet they are cut off from some of the resources other plugin developers like BoltBait, Pyrochild, and Madjik have. Uncool, to say the least.

Next is the Effects API and File Formate API. There is no true documentation of the APIs that I know of, so at least a more focused place to ask for information about the APIs would be better. Now you might be saying "Oh, isnt that what the current sections are for?" Yes, but it doesnt work. topics like this are lost in confusion because a closer, more focused place to ask for help simply doesnt exist publicly. Sabrown is wanting help in that thread to increase the productivity of his plugins, yet his thread is simply passed over.

And last is announcements about upgrades to the source of Paint.NET. Usually such things can be found in Rick's blog, but if my whole idea happens a lot more notice will taken into account about your plans to develop Paint.NET in the future.

Oma said the other day she doesnt want my spare change, she wants all I have to offer. Here it is. BoltBait and David, go ahead and ban me for posting this but somethings need to change. This forum was built with smaller groups in mind, and now that this forum has grown to exceding levels things need to be changed. The Pictorium was a great start and functions exactly like hoped for. Lets continue fixing up this forum and turn Paint.NET into the renowned application it deserves to be.

signature.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont know how many of you read my Rant last night ...

Nope, didn't see it. Maybe you could provide a link. :roll:

... about the stranglement of smaller plugin developers by closed off portions of this forum, but this thread is the outcome of it all.

I'm not sure why you think we're "strangling" you. I think you're approaching the presentation of your idea from the wrong perspective.

My suggestion is to integrate the General Coding/ Programming, Effects API/ Programming, and the File Format API/ Programming sections of these forums into a central section. Something like Developer Central.

So you basically just want to merge these 3 sections into 1?

There plugin authors can, IF THEY CHOOSE, share their source, colloborate on community projects, ask for help in the Effects API and File Format API, as well as get updates in code changes to Paint.NET. Let me explain further what I am trying to get done:

First of all, I think publishing the source side by side of the plugins in the Plugins section loses a lot of focus on the whole fact that about fifty percent of the plugins are open source. If a Developer Central was to be opened and source could be shared I think a lot more notice and attention would be brought to the work our Plugin Authors have put in to making Paint.NET better.

As well, community projects are hidden from the forum. I can understand Rick wanting to have a section to get closer feedback on releases of Paint.NET, but why keep plugin developement hidden?

Plugin development is not "hidden," I don't know what you're talking about. Some of the others who have access to the hidden forum section have simply chosen to publish private test releases in there as well. We don't always want the full audience of testers; it's much more productive to start with a smaller audience and then expand it.

Both Sabrown, Pyjo, and Curtis look to be very promising in their programming abilities yet they are cut off from some of the resources other plugin developers like BoltBait, Pyrochild, and Madjik have. Uncool, to say the least.

Like I said, this is up to the other plugin authors who make use of the private/hidden sections of the forum. This isn't a forum requirement or policy.

Next is the Effects API and File Formate API. There is no true documentation of the APIs that I know of, so at least a more focused place to ask for information about the APIs would be better. Now you might be saying "Oh, isnt that what the current sections are for?" Yes, but it doesnt work. topics like this are strangled because a closer, more focused place to ask for help simply doesnt exist publicly. Sabrown is wanting help in that thread to increase the productivity of his plugins, yet his thread is simply passed over.

No, looks like he got an answer. Stop using the word "strangle". You are talking like I am trying to prevent people from publishing plugins. Clearly that is false.

And last is announcements about upgrades to the source of Paint.NET. Usually such things can be found in Rick's blog, but if my whole idea happens a lot more notice will taken into account about your plans to develop Paint.NET in the future.

I don't understand what you're getting at here. You're saying I should cross-post information to the forum? Why not just add blog.getpaint.net to your RSS aggregator?!

Oma said the other day she doesnt want my spare change, she wants all I have to offer. Here it is. BoltBait and David, go ahead and ban me for posting this but somethings need to change. This forum was built with smaller groups in mind, and now that this forum has grown to exceding levels things need to be changed. The Pictorium was a great start and functions exactly like hoped for. Lets continue fixing up this forum and turn Paint.NET into the renowned application it deserves to be.

I'm still not completely sure what you're even asking for. You want a simple reorganization of the forum? Or you want more involvement and documentation from others?

The Paint.NET Blog: https://blog.getpaint.net/

Donations are always appreciated! https://www.getpaint.net/donate.html

forumSig_bmwE60.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for replying, Rick.

First off, I am using the word 'strangle' reffering to the difficulty of getting support. Second, I am not deffending me. I am deffending plugin authors like Sabrown, Pyjo, MiguelPerriera, and Curtis. As well, my rant was in the Rants thread, no need to link as this is just the outcome of it all.

And the answer to your final question is this: I want to reorganize that section of the forums, yes. I think that it would create an increase in plugin developement. And last, how would a plugin author get access to that hidden forum? I tried, without reply. Is that because I havent published a plugin?

Sabrown: that is what I am asking for. A Plugin Developer Central.

signature.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that it would create an increase in plugin developement

How would disorganising the help into different sections increase plugin development.

And last, how would a plugin author get access to that hidden forum? I tried, without reply. Is that because I havent published a plugin?

All I know is that I have access to 11 sub-forums on this board.

----

Are you talking about a complete overhaul of the way this forum is organised or simply a new "Plugin Tutorials" section?

KaHuc.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

BoltBait did write a series of tutorials on writing plugins, if you search they should show themselves. :)

dA

Son, someday you will make a girl happy for a short period of time. Then she'll leave you & be with men that are ten times

better than you can imagine. These men are called musicians. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First off, I am using the word 'strangle' reffering to the difficulty of getting support. Second, I am not deffending me. I am deffending plugin authors like Sabrown, Pyjo, MiguelPerriera, and Curtis.

I would suggest using a different word. "Strangle" implies malicious intent.

As well, my rant was in the Rants thread, no need to link as this is just the outcome of it all.

It's always good to have quick access to the complete context of a discussion.

And the answer to your final question is this: I want to reorganize that section of the forums, yes. I think that it would create an increase in plugin developement.

I'm listening and paying attention.

And last, how would a plugin author get access to that hidden forum? I tried, without reply. Is that because I havent published a plugin?

No, it has nothing to do with that. The hidden forum was meant for me to be able to publish builds of Paint.NET to a small audience at a much higher frequency (sometimes several times a day). I don't want these builds showing up on public download mirrors! It is also useful for me to be able to test out not just the program, but new and changed things in the plugin model (such as IndirectUI, which underwent many revision before any public release). The fact that others are using it for their own private plugin testing is simply because they have chosen to use it that way, which is fine. I do invite new authors in to the forum on an invite-only basis, but I simply have not kept up lately with some of the newer plugin authors.

The Paint.NET Blog: https://blog.getpaint.net/

Donations are always appreciated! https://www.getpaint.net/donate.html

forumSig_bmwE60.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, I understand the hidden section better now, thankyou for clearing that up. And I stand by my PM I sent you a few weeks ago: I am more than willing to sit down and do concentrated testing if you ever need more help.

Now onto the meat of the ordeal. I simply think that a place to publish source, publish third party documentation, as well as publish prereleases of plugins that is public would be extremely beneficial to plugin developement. I, learning C# as it is, have a hard time going through plugins to find source to study. The Paint.NET Source is of more help then you could imagine, and I am really grateful for that, but for students like me and those not necessarily familiar with the API a section as described would be immensly helpful. That is part of the reason I PM'd you about testing Paint.NET: I want to learn, and I am sure I am not the only one. Then Pyrochild, who I admire for is plugins, ranted about users suggesting new features and how it kills him in wanting to program. His rant loosely inspired me to make this request.

Edit: I changed the use of 'strangle' in my first post.

signature.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand were your coming from as it something that I hate as well and is the reason I don't go to the plugin part of the forums or even try making plugins myself (Besides I have no idea what kind of Plugin to make as I only do simple image editing that MS Paint could do). No I don't got C# yet and will not even look at it till I get my java which wont be long from now. However I do got my VB.NET and there is a template out there for me to use VB.NET to make Plugins for Paint.NET last I looked. But what the point if help is going to be super hard to get. I don't know what Rick got done in Paint.NET so I would need to go through the code like I was reading a book (I may have sometime on my hands but not that much) were as some documentation would get me through it faster. If I get stuck or want to know how someone did some other cool effect as it may hold a key to something I am trying to do it would be nice to get help from that plugin maker.

Now that how I look at the matter and why I don't try to make plugins. How many other people out there think somewhat like that ?

I am sorry but I really like the true idea of open source. Were it was not just about a program being free (Could do that with out calling it open source) but about it sharing it's code with other coders so they could learn together. That why so many open source projects have members who are always giving out there code and how to's to make it better for others to learn from.

Lets get this on record as some people tend to think this for some reason. I am not saying all plugin makers should be forced to give out there source code. So get that out of your head. I can understand why you don't want to give it out, you worry about things like people taking credit for your work or using your code to do a better job on your work. I not going into this part with anymore detail as I know I will be flamed when I start listing why I think that not going to be to big of a problem.

Something about what has been said does bug me. Most open source I see don't like to limit there users but like them to work together. They keep update information such as the code locked away untill the program is ready to go out and then they release the code. But I never heard of open source picking who should be able to get help and who should not. I getting the impression that this is being done as I read through this topic and read of a forum that only a handfull of plugin makers can see and use for giving help on there plugins. How does that help a new guy who wants to do Plugins ? Don't you think that all of that should be public for all to benefit from ? Even people who don't program may find it useful. I know a guy right now who can learn anything in no time just by looking at it and I am sure there people here just like that. That also like the thing about PM's. I read it here that some Plugin makers will PM there help then post it. That great who does not like getting one on one help. However (sorry) it seems limiting again as now it only one person getting help and Plugin makers can pick who they want to give help to.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now don't hold that post against me. I am not going after anyone, I only like this to be coder friendly. I like everyone here and I always try to give a helping hand were I can. Reason I am telling you that is because I don't want to get on anyones bad side and lose any friendships with any members here. I sorry if you take what I said the wrong way or think I am trying to hurt you. I am not and if you feel that way just know that it was not inteded. To be truthful I am starting to think I should not post my opinion on this matter as I don't want hard feeling from anyone.

If anyone feels that my post is attacking them or something I will remove it ! as I rather lose a post then a friend.

PS: Sorry if there any miss spellings as I got to go and don't got time to proof read it. Knowing me there a lot in there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pyrochild, who I admire for is plugins, ranted about users suggesting new features and how it kills him in wanting to program. His rant loosely inspired me to make this request.

Again, you completely misunderstood what I was talking about. I would never rant about users suggesting new features. "The customer is always right."

I was complaining that, on multiple occasions now, people have not only suggested that plugin authors should release all of their source code, but that they should be required to do so. In a more recent occasion, I've seen it suggested that plugin development is a free-for-all where we are all out to get each other. I've seen it said that we all need to be happy and hug a lot and work together all the time.

If a user has a suggestion for the end product, that is absolutely fine. Not only is it fine, it's expected. If you have something that would enhance your experience of using our work, then by all means, spit it out!

But what we don't want to hear is how to do our job/hobby. We already know how to program, thank you very much, and would rather not have people who have never done so telling us how we should do it. If we want to be happy, hug a lot, and work together all the time, fine. If we want to be secretive, protective of our work, and proud of it, then so be it. If you worked for Contractor-X, and you were building a house for a customer, then of course you'd let the customer tell you, "no, I want the fireplace on the other side of the room." But would you want some bum off the street coming and telling you that you have to work with Contractor-Y and Contractor-Z so that the house is "better?" No, you'd say "build your own damn house."

Likewise, when people start telling me how to program, they're going to get a "write your own damn plugin" instead.

And this nonsense about Simon's question in the programming forum being "skipped over?" Well, this is not a programming forum. The vast majority of the users are not programmers, and don't know C++ from Visual Basic, Java, or Cobol. Some of us are programmers, yes, but we're not always on the forum, waiting to pounce on every programming question we see. If someone wants a programming question answered fast, they'd be best off posting in a place where programmers will see it fast. Here, it's just going to take longer.

xZYt6wl.png

ambigram signature by Kemaru

[i write plugins and stuff]

If you like a post, upvote it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First, Pyro, this thread is nothing against you. Just the thought about you defending the fact you guys do work togethr is what in the end inspired this thread.

Secondly, I am not asking anything of you. I am not asking for your help, not asking for your source, and am not asking for anything new other than what you do right now.

Thirdly, Rick Brewster releases his code for students to study. I see no reason why, in turn, there cant be a more dedicated section of this forums in which students can ask for help, Rick can update us on what changes he wants to make concerning Paint.NET's source so that every release we dont have to read it all over again, and plugin authors can release their source code outside of the Plugins section. So once again you fail to realize what I am talking about.

As well, Simon's post had not been answered, yet looked over plenty of times. Not only until I made this post did anybody answer Simon's question. And isnt it funny that smaller plugin authors and those who want to learn want this section, yet larger figures of plugin publishing do not? I wander why.

signature.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well Mike I'm one who looked at sabrown's post and didn't answere as I didn't know the answere. OMA

might I just say also that if you all do have a dedicated area of plug in writing maybe you should teach each other the proper way to release it to us peasants.

there should be proper screen shots and a proper discription of what exactly the plug in is supposed to do. Not picking on you sabrown but case in point that custom frame plugin. the way you worded that it looked just like a simple semi transparent square box around a picture. definetly not correct. It was only after Madjik looked at the code it was explained. I'm not a code writter or even really familiar with code but I think if the source had been there with the plugin I'd have figured out it did more than just put a semi transparent box around my picture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...