2453 - Closing files

[aatwo]

Hey Mr Rick. The new build is looking pretty sexy but you might wanna take a look at the following.

- If you edit an image and then click the cross on the MDI thumbnails then it closes without saving changes, no questions asked. I do however like how you can only close the current image in the mdi thumbnail section. Closing the wrong file by accident and then forgetting what you just closed would probably be annoying

- The new save dialogue looks splendid. But its a little strange how if you uncheck an image then it defaults to closing without saving the image. I was thinking that perhaps it might be nice and useful were you to add in another save dialogue that pops up, only when you have unchecked any images in the previous save dialogue, asking what the user would like to do with the files that they unchecked. Or perhaps you could have a small drop down list in the current save dialogue asking what the user would like to do with unchecked files or something.

[Rick Brewster]

- If you edit an image and then click the cross on the MDI thumbnails then it closes without saving changes, no questions asked. I do however like how you can only close the current image in the mdi thumbnail section. Closing the wrong file by accident and then forgetting what you just closed would probably be annoying

Yeah I found that bug about 3 seconds after I published the update. Oops

- The new save dialogue looks splendid. But its a little strange how if you uncheck an image then it defaults to closing without saving the image. I was thinking that perhaps it might be nice and useful were you to add in another save dialogue that pops up, only when you have unchecked any images in the previous save dialogue, asking what the user would like to do with the files that they unchecked. Or perhaps you could have a small drop down list in the current save dialogue asking what the user would like to do with unchecked files or something.

But the whole point is that it did ask you what to do with them ... by unchecking the image you are telling it not to save it. "Save the images that are checked in the list above, and then exit." Is it not clear? This is a first draft UI mind you ... so of course there is probably room for improvement.

[barkbark00]

Ricks got a point, I mean what esle would you want to do w/ the unchecked images besides exiting without saving??

[Rick Brewster]

Right but aatwo also has a point in that he was confused. Seriously -- the UI is meant to be easy and obvious, so if there's a legitimate concern here then now is the absolute best time to figure out ways to improve it.

[barkbark00]

*Feels dumb* Rick has a point.....again!

[barkbark00]

How about something like this?

[Rick Brewster]

That's an interesting idea.

[aatwo]

Well I understand what you mean, but having the option to uncheck images and then being able to click the "Don't save" button, ultimately dealing the same fate to all of the images, just makes me feel like something should instead pop up to ask "well you obviously unchecked these images for a reason... so instead of ignoring that fact and treating them all the same, how would you like me to deal with them".

After all, perhaps the user decided upon seeing the list of images in the save box that they forgot to finish editing some of the images that they have open. At that point perhaps they would want to save changes to all the checked images and then go back to edit the rest of the images in one easy step (instead of leaving all images open while they finish those few they forgot, because at this point lets face it, some kind of powercut or hardware failure would seriously rag me off had I not saved my work because of this).

Also I'm gonna take this opportunity to point out that you have a spelling error in the save dialogue. Quote the raven "Some of the images thare are open have not been saved".

[Rick Brewster]

So what you want is a 4th button that's basically "Save the checked images, then close those checked images, but leave the unchecked images open and don't quit" ?

I think something like a File->Close Unsaved option would work better. You would hit Cancel on this one, then do File->Close Unsaved. Otherwise this dialog just gets too cluttered, and you'd have two "Save" options and it would be confusing.

And dang those typos!

[aatwo]

I think something like a File->Close Unsaved option would work better. You would hit Cancel on this one, then do File->Close Unsaved. Otherwise this dialog just gets too cluttered, and you'd have two "Save" options and it would be confusing.

I see your point about the clutter and confusion and a menu option would be one way of sorting it. Perhaps however bark bark has a point. The save dialogue should have everything you need. If you keep adding more and more features scattered around the ui you will never be able to make things obvious and expected to every user no matter how well you catorise things. Be honest, unless somone told you or you had had a really good look around the menus, would you really expect there to be a "close unsaved" option anywhere? Your average Joe user probably would not have even thought of that since every other application they use has the generic new,open save,save as,print,exit menu.

How about something like this. It's not perfect and hardly standardised but it is clear and simple.

Or perhaps something like this would be even more intuitive:

-------------------------------

Another few things I noticed... In the new save dialogue when you click on either an image or its check box it will unselect it, however you can only click the check box to reselect it (left mouse button).

Also when moving a selection using the cursor keys it adds to the history every time the selection progresses a pixel. This can make for a very long history list.

And finally while using the zoom function to create that image I noticed how intrusive the tool boxes can be despite their transparency. perhaps allowing the user to minimise them wold be nice. maybe clicking their taskbars could minimise them so that you can only see the taskbar, and then clicking it again could maximise it again.

[barkbark00]

How about this?

You'd probably use radio buttons instead of check boxes, but I was just working with what was in the image...

[barkbark00]

Aatwo: we posted at the same time!!

[Picc84]

I like Barkbark00's idea, and the First one Aatwo's idea

[Rick Brewster]

Actually I don't believe the solution is to add more buttons and stuff to the UI -- that just makes more stuff to click on to get anything done, and just adds to the confusion.

Instead I think the solution should be to implement better visual and textual cues (not clues, that's not a typo). For instance, when you uncheck an image I can grey it out and overlay an icon that clearly indicates to the user that they have marked that image to be discarded. The red asterisk "disclaimer text" is also a good idea to show once 1 or more items are unchecked.

Aatwo, the 2nd and 3rd mock screenshots you show don't work for me. They just add more buttons and options to choose from and get in the user's way. Barkbark00, I have absolutely no idea what the mock screenshot you posted is supposed to do. It makes no sense to me.

[Rick Brewster]

Another few things I noticed... In the new save dialogue when you click on either an image or its check box it will unselect it, however you can only click the check box to reselect it (left mouse button).

Yup, just a bug. Remember how I said there are bugs and fit&finish work still left to do I figured I'd get what I'd already finished out there so you guys could throw it around a bit.

Also when moving a selection using the cursor keys it adds to the history every time the selection progresses a pixel. This can make for a very long history list.

By design. That's just the way the history works -- and has always worked. We track everything (evil laughter goes here).

And finally while using the zoom function to create that image I noticed how intrusive the tool boxes can be despite their transparency. perhaps allowing the user to minimise them wold be nice. maybe clicking their taskbars could minimise them so that you can only see the taskbar, and then clicking it again could maximise it again.

Interesting idea, I'm just not sure how I'd make the availability of this functionality apparent to the user. Maybe an F9 shortcut to hide all tool windows or something.

[BoltBait]

I'm just not sure how I'd make the availability of this functionality apparent to the user. Maybe an F9 shortcut to hide all tool windows or something.

How about F12 If any tool windows are open, it hides them. Or, if none are visible, it shows them all--Similar to how the Windows-D key works.

[Picc84]

I'm just not sure how I'd make the availability of this functionality apparent to the user. Maybe an F9 shortcut to hide all tool windows or something.

How about F12 If any tool windows are open, it hides them. Or, if none are visible, it shows them all.

How bout...

F12= If some are shown, It makes them all Appear the first time, Hit it again and they Go away, Hit it agian, they come back? something in that order if you know what i mean?

[BoltBait]

I'm just not sure how I'd make the availability of this functionality apparent to the user. Maybe an F9 shortcut to hide all tool windows or something.

How about F12 If any tool windows are open, it hides them. Or, if none are visible, it shows them all.

How bout...

F12= If some are shown, It makes them all Appear the first time, Hit it again and they Go away, Hit it agian, they come back? something in that order if you know what i mean?

Because that's not how Windows-D works?

[Picc84]

Sorry, i was just thinking of that because than if you have only 3 out of the 4 windows open, and you want to close them.. you would need to open the Missing one, than use the F12 key, if it was your method, while myin it would open what ever is closed, than you hit it again, and they all close...

[aatwo]

Aatwo, the 2nd and 3rd mock screenshots you show don't work for me. They just add more buttons and options to choose from and get in the user's way.

I think that if you were to grey them out and overlay them with some kind of icon that clearly shows them to be discarded like you suggested then I think that would solve the problem nicely since the fact that is was unclear what was going to happen to the unchecked files was the source of confusion.

As for the minimisation of the toolboxes, perhaps something as simple as this could work.

Edit: I cannot remember if this is a new thing, but if you have too many images open then you cannot see some of the images until you close those that you can see. I swear there was some kind of drop down over flow list in a previous build.

[Rick Brewster]

As for the minimisation of the toolboxes, perhaps something as simple as this could work.

Hmm. Easier said than done. That area of a dialog box is called the "non-client" area and if you want to stay sane you just let Windows handle all the drawing.

Might be worth considering for a future version. I'll file a tracking bug at least.

[aatwo]

I did not mean to sound nieve to the coding behind something like that. What I meant was that it would be a visually simple solution since it is graphically quite self explanitory.

(note the edit in previous post)

[Picc84]

aatwo, your talking about just a simple

Expand/Collapse... idea?

Now i'am not an writer of C codes, but iam with you on that one (your post above me)

[Rick Brewster]

I did not mean to sound nieve to the coding behind something like that. What I meant was that it would be a visually simple solution since it is graphically quite self explanitory.

(note the edit in previous post)

Oh sorry, I wasn't trying to imply naievety (sp?). Just pointing it out I tend to agree that, visually, the general idea looks like it would work.

[Rick Brewster]

Edit: I cannot remember if this is a new thing, but if you have too many images open then you cannot see some of the images until you close those that you can see. I swear there was some kind of drop down over flow list in a previous build.

This is true. There was a overflow button but it sucked and I hated it and I killed it and then it died. I rewrote that whole part of the UI anyway, I'm just not done yet