object model for drawing

[Crazy Man Dan]

Selectable drawn objects sounds a lot like a vector graphics feature to me.

Fireworks is capable of both vector and raster editing. Adobe Photoshop does not have vector features as such, and requires that you get Adobe Illustrator to work with objects.

Paint.NET is, as of now, solely a raster (pixel-based) image editor. When something is created, be it a line, a shape, anything, individual pixels are changed to a certain color+alpha value. There is therefore no actual "object" to select, merely a group of contiguous pixels with varying values.

In order for this feature to be implemented, Paint.NET would have to step in to the realm of vector graphics. As of right now, as far as I am aware, there are no plans to do this. Rick has, however, hinted at the possibility for the future... *ponders*

[Rick Brewster]

So basically you want us to completely rewrite Paint.NET from scratch to accomodate you. Hmm.

[windypops]

yeah.....and make it ten times better than photoshop and still "free" while your at it. :wink:

have only started to explore paint.net.

I often think having some kind of vector layer would be a good addition to raster imaging progs, and visa versa for that matter. I am not a programmer but I believe that text is handled in this fashion.

[antonjw]

I see what the original poster is getting at.

I have encountered a similar issue with text. I seem to be unable to click on a text 'object' after placing it in my image and moving on to something else - I guess because in fact, it is not remembered by the program as being an 'object', it is now just part of the layer that it was placed on.

What I would like to be able to do is to click into an existing text field with the text tool, and edit the existing text - delete individual characters, change the font, etc... as if i were adding the object in the first instance.

I think the original poster was imagining the same scenario with all objects - so each object created would remember the fact that, in the first instance, it is a separate object rather than just part of the overall layer, it would remember its dimensions and any other properties that are editable for that type (e.g. font size for text). Also, after placing an object onto the layer, such as a rectangle, there would be a 'select' ot 'lassoo' type line around the object - communicating to the designer that the object is still editable - so it could be stretched, for example, or its colour changed simply by changing the primary colour with the object still highlighted.

Using the Move tool (or the original tool, or a new Edit Object tool?), you would be able to select that object at a later point in time and alter it in the same way as described above.

Mostly for me at present, the issue is with text, it is fairly time consuming to have to keep re-doing text, especially if you have moved on to using different colours.

Just a couple of cents worth.

May I just say at this point that the above are just suggestions, not criticisms, and after only downloading the program this morning I think it is fantastic, very easy to use, and in some ways better than Photoshop, certainly in terms of performance.

It's a joy to use, thankyou for creating it.

[Crazy Man Dan]

What I would like to be able to do is to click into an existing text field with the text tool, and edit the existing text - delete individual characters, change the font, etc... as if i were adding the object in the first instance.

I think the original poster was imagining the same scenario with all objects - so each object created would remember the fact that, in the first instance, it is a separate object rather than just part of the overall layer, it would remember its dimensions and any other properties that are editable for that type (e.g. font size for text). Also, after placing an object onto the layer, such as a rectangle, there would be a 'select' ot 'lassoo' type line around the object - communicating to the designer that the object is still editable - so it could be stretched, for example, or its colour changed simply by changing the primary colour with the object still highlighted.

Using the Move tool (or the original tool, or a new Edit Object tool?), you would be able to select that object at a later point in time and alter it in the same way as described above.

Text I could see as needing to be editable post-creation, but other than that, the features you mentioned there are usually restricted to vector drawing programs.

There was a program in the past (Microsoft's PhotoDraw) that was a raster tool but used objects similar to what you're describing. It ended up being terribly slow while making complex drawing due to a whole slew of objects, and it was usually difficult to align objects or make complex shapes. You could "Cut Out" objects from others to make new shapes, but the cut edges got blurry and smudgy on resizing where the original object borders stayed clear.

Raster tools work in pixels. When you use a Selection tool and fill it in, then deselect, those pixels are still just a mass of pixels with revised color information. Vector tools work with objects, drawn by mathmatical formule. By keeping each formula in memory, they can determine the boundries of each object so they stay as objects. (This is how I understand it. I'm not a programmer, so I'm not certain of the back-end needed to get the programs to work. I just know how to use the tools others create. I sure hope I'm not making a fool out of myself... :o )

[antonjw]

I see what you're saying Dan about memory usage, I can see how it may affect the performance of the program, which, at present, is definitely one of its strong points.

It would be great to see the feature implemented for text, however; as you say, I think the need is more apparent.

[Rick Brewster]

Implementing this for the Text Tool is something that would be great, I completely agree. You want it, Dan wants it, I want it. It's just simply something we have to prioritize along with everything else we want to do (of which there is a lot).

Making everything in to vectors opens up a whole new bag of worms that, frankly, I'm not sure I'm knowledgeable enough or have enough stamina to address at this point. There are performance concerns, but those can be worked around (that's the fun part). However, once you get a taste of flexibility, "Hey I can edit this after the fact!", you soon end up wanting a lot more flexibility: "Hey why can't I deform this? Why can't I merge shapes in this manner? Why can't I bend it and then attach text to its path? Why can't I add or remove control points? Why can't I choose the spline function? Why can't I edit the derivates of the control points on this curve?"

Basically once you jump over to vector tools you rapidly reach a very complex and even professional level of expected functionality. Things like Illustrator are expensive for a reason