NigelTufnel

That's fantastic, Rick. Sounds like you're going to have your work cut out for you. Thanks for answering that.

Forgive me for asking this, but how well does PhotoShop or other graphics software handle memory differently from PDN? I'm not complaining. It's my fault that my computer only has so much RAM, and it is due for an upgrade. I'm just curious. By the way, I love PDN. Probably the best piece of free software I "own".

Sure, Rick. I understand that. I just wanted to know if that was an expected memory usage for that size of graphic. Looks like it is. Thanks for answering.

I'm creating a banner for my band. The specs on the image that the printer would like are 100dpi jpeg at actual output size. So the banner is going to be 3' x 6'. What I did was create a new PDN at 100dpi, 72" by 36". Now granted, this is going to take up some memory. But here's where it gets interesting. The project consists of 2 layers, one of some pretty simple text, and another with a black background and an image. The PDN itself is about 15MB on disk. But the memory used by the PDN application while it is loaded is well over 1GB. Since I don't have an analogous program like PhotoShop installed on my computer, I can't see if this is a normal expectation or not. Adding a third layer results in a message stating that there was "not enough memory to complete the operation". Both machines I have tried this on have 1GB or physical memory and a 1GB swap file. Granted, that isn't a lot by today's standards. I'm just curious if it is normal to expect PDN to take up over 1GB of RAM while a 15MB PDN file is loaded.

Very funny, David. I'll take it in the spirit in which you intended it...I think. By "elitism" what I meant was snobbery, and don't tell me you haven't seen that here. I've been lurking in this forum at least as long as you've been here.

Exactly. I'm a musician and frequent some other guitar forums and am even mod/admin on some (not under this user name, though). In all of those forums, newbie participation is actively encouraged. We encourage them to post recordings of their work or their tone, and ask even the simplest of questions. Even if it isn't good...heck, ESPECIALLY if it isn't good, so we can help them get their tone or recording methods correct. We HELP them, not shut them down. Nobody criticizes them for making the attempt. And certainly nobody bans them or locks their thread because what they posted was too simple or because we've seen or heard it thousands of times before. You can learn from anything, and that goes for the senior members of the forum too. Sometimes, the newbie members have some really great ideas that we never would have thought of because it's too simple. When you have the attitude that you just can't learn from anyone else, that's when you start stagnating and die. And it leads to elitist stuff like we've seen around here time and time again.

While it isn't perfect, there is a free online vectorization tool that works well for some image types: http://vectormagic.stanford.edu/

Hey Ash, I agree with 90% of that sentiment. Lots of helpful people here, especially you. I've learned a lot just by reading your posts. But if this forum wasn't harsh to newbies (and I mean newbie in a gentle way...we're all newbies at something) then this thread wouldn't have been created. I'll shut up now. Because it's obvious some people here are way too close to the problem to see it clearly.

Ash, Yes, I did see the next line. But "good" is highly subjective. Some of the tutorials posted by first time posters to the forum might not be considered "good" by the moderators, but they do illustrate concepts that, while seeming mundane to others, are actually useful to other noobs. And noobs are the whole reason that forums exist. I've seen plenty of decent first time tutorials locked by the mods after being chastised for not reading the rules. And I've seen plenty of tuts posted that got high praise even though the tut wasn't that great. Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive, but I still feel that this forum is overly hostile to new users with perfectly legitimate questions. I've got questions myself, but am afraid to even ask them for fear of being ridiculed by the mods or other users.

Oh agreed. There is a wealth of information on this site. And it's the reason I've been reading it for over a year. But sometimes I just have to walk away because the bashing really gets to me. I frequent other forums where civility and respect is the norm, and trolls are the rare exception. There's no reason why this one can't be the same way. One of the reasons why I think that some noobs might be afraid to post is the way that noob questions are handled. They are shut down immediately, told to read the rules, and the thread is locked. Granted, many of the rules are common sense, but there's so much moderator and admin intervention, repleat with tersely worded almost rude responses, that it may be setting the wrong example. I believe that the "rules" should be treated as guidelines. Noobs shouldn't be punished for asking questions or unintentionally violating them. Make them feel welcome and they'll become productive members of the community. Oh, and the "no tutorials as your first post" rule? What if that person has been a lurker on the forum for a long time, understands how the software really works, and has a lot of graphic design experience to share?

Well, if this rule is followed then I think it's a step in the right direction. I've lurked for a long time and avoided posting to this forum at all because of the way noobs are treated. Some of the people here on the board are downright nasty. It's no way to treat your fellow Paint.NET enthusiast. People that took the time to create tutorials or images that weren't quite up to what some people consider the standard are flamed and their work is harshly criticized. There are a small handful of more mature posters here that understand forum etiquette, and the younger audience needs to look at their example and emulate it. I think a large part of the problem is reflected in the results of this poll in The Overflow: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6676 68% of the responders are between the ages of 10 and 20. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that. It's just that with that young of an audience, you're more apt to find individuals that don't understand how to behave in a mature manner on a forum. I'm old enough to be the father of apparently close to 70% of the people here, and if my children treated strangers the way I've seen some of these people treat others, they'd be taught a lesson that they would not soon forget (end curmudgeon mode ). That said, there are some very talented developers and artists among the youth here. I've learned about the product from many of them. And I appreciate the tutorials and plugins that they've created. I just hope the forum becomes a more civil place where a Paint.NET noob would feel comfortable posting. It isn't there yet. The mere fact that you have to specifically tell people not to start fights and threaten them with banishment is a testament to that fact.