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WillT

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Posts posted by WillT

    Transparent background disappearing?

    in Paint.NET Discussion and Questions

    Posted · Edited by WillT

    Well this has been a bunch of learning! Now that I know my way around PDN much better, a side benefit is that perhaps I will use it much more than I thought originally.  Anyway I am hesitant to say this is figured out and possibly jinx it, but I do seem to have it working for this particular signpost image.  I was doing some of the things @IHaveNoName suggested above.  While working with a version of the file in .ico format, I decided to zoom way in and try adding solid black to some of the signpost pixels, and erasing completely the contents of the adjacent "transparent" pixels.  This gave me clean edges, although it looked bad and boxy zoomed/enlarged like that.  BUT, when I put it back to the 16X16 size I decided I wanted for this particular map symbol, it looked fine.  

     

    So I saved it to the correct folder and it showed up in the BaseCamp software.  Then I saved a version of the file to the Garmin GPSr and it worked, sort of.  I could make a waypoint on the GPSr unit and assign it the signpost symbol file and it showed up.  But when I sent a waypoint that had the signpost symbol already assigned to it in BaseCamp to the GPSr, it did not show the signpost, but rather the generic waypoint symbol blue flag.  I realized that this was because even though the Garmin products could display the .ico files just fine, in order to have the symbols synced between garmin devices, the Garmin firmware/software was requiring them to be .bmp, not .ico....  And they had to have the exact correct names. (In this case, 002.bmp in BaseCamp and Custom 2.bmp on the GPS receiver so the Garmin software would know to use those two files interchangeably.)

     

    So.. what I did as the last step was open each of the .ico symbol files in PDN and just save them as .bmp files.  PDN just seemed to save the .ico files as .bmp files without changing anything about the image or colors, etc.  So now it works as it should.

     

    Now at least I know how to get a small symbol icon file from an image that has anti-aliasing already on it.  BUT... I think I will really try to make my own files for the remaining symbols I need and avoid the issue from the start on as many of the symbols as possible.  

     

    Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions along the way.  It took a while and a lot of studying up on PDN by me to understand most of the suggestions, but I feel it was well worth it.

    • Like 2

    Transparent background disappearing?

    in Paint.NET Discussion and Questions

    Posted

    So after doing the following steps, the black signpost image still has the magenta bleeding around the edges. (Looks pretty much the same as the previous images before using the plugin.)

     

    Started with the original downloaded image at 32X32.
    In PDN applied the Black and Alpha+ at the default setting to the one layer with the black signpost.
    Then created another layer and filled it with the bucket with 255,0,255
    Swapped the position of the layers so the symbol looked correct. (Magenta background with black signpost.)
    Saved as .bmp file at 24 bit and flattened.

     

    Did I miss a step or use the plugin incorrectly or something?

    Transparent background disappearing?

    in Paint.NET Discussion and Questions

    Posted · Edited by WillT

    Wow!  Finally!  That seemed to do it.  The edges look a little fuzzy for some reason though but on something that small it is not the end of the world.  What did you mean about the contrast?  When and on what would that last step be done?

     

    Edit: I spoke too soon. I don't quite have it yet.  Somehow I ended up with a solid white background instead of magenta/transparent.  I'll do it again from scratch to see if I can figure out why.

    Transparent background disappearing?

    in Paint.NET Discussion and Questions

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, HyReZ said:

    Leave it as it is.

    I did forgot that alpha is 8 bits in gray-scale so you may need one more step.

    To adjust contrast after you do the Black and alpha.

    I have been trying all combinations with no success yet.  So next I will leave the plugin as it is and apply it to the original layer with the signpost?  Then create a second layer with the 255,0,255 fill?  

    • Like 1

    Transparent background disappearing?

    in Paint.NET Discussion and Questions

    Posted

    7 minutes ago, HyReZ said:

    It is called being baptized by total immersion! 🙂

    Yeah. And what I want to do, just making a few custom symbols to use in my maps seemed like it would be so easy!!

     

    1 minute ago, HyReZ said:

    It will leave you with a 2 bit image of black and alpha. It should do the trick.

     

    Thanks!  Got it installed and will try it.

     

    5 minutes ago, toe_head2001 said:

     

    Yes, anti-aliasing does usually look better. However in this case, your Garmin device doesn't support the semi-transparent edges that are used to achieve anti-aliasing.

    Makes sense.  Thanks.

    Transparent background disappearing?

    in Paint.NET Discussion and Questions

    Posted · Edited by WillT

    4 minutes ago, toe_head2001 said:

    The "Selection Clipping Mode" won't do anything for you here, as it only affects selection operations.

    I thought the same, but I could not find anywhere else to follow the instructed suggestion of turning anti aliasing off.  Where in PDN is that?

    On edit:  Sorry, finally found it.  Missed the tiny squiggly menu item.

    Transparent background disappearing?

    in Paint.NET Discussion and Questions

    Posted · Edited by WillT

    28 minutes ago, toe_head2001 said:

     

    When the image is resampled to a smaller size, some blending occurs. It's recommended to create the image at the desired size, rather than resizing it after the fact.

     

    On this particular sign post, I just tried that as they have both a 16x16 and 32x32 png version available. So I got the 16x16 and opened it in PDN.  Then with "Selection Clipping Mode" set to pixelated, I added the magenta layer.  Then saved as a flattened .bmp into the Garmin folder.  BaseCamp map uses it fine, but it looks exactly the same as the one I made reducing from 256x256 to 16x16.  So starting with an already small image and skipping the reducing step did not matter.

    Transparent background disappearing?

    in Paint.NET Discussion and Questions

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, IHaveNoName said:

    That suggested a crude solution to me which may work if no other advice proves suitable: create the icon/symbol itself at 32x32 and build it from single, solid black pixels. You'd need to work at 1000%+ magnification but in theory it should give you the fully transparent background you want if the shapes used are simple with straight lines.

    Thanks - That may indeed work for this symbol but many of the symbols are more complex in nature and design.  Most of the 8 or 10 symbols I want to add to my maps are from free downloads, either websites or from people I have communicated with on other non graphic and non mappin sites.  I just use what is available and am trying to make them work with the Garmin products.  I am so close it is frustrating.  I have it working except for this last edges part.

    Transparent background disappearing?

    in Paint.NET Discussion and Questions

    Posted

    1 hour ago, HyReZ said:


    Because of anti-aliasing in both the text and the sign; when the text and sign are flattened into the magenta background, the feathering around those images are  merged into tints and shades of magenta, and therefore have a different color value and are not blocked as is the transparency value. It is a good idea to turn off anti-aliasing when making your image.

     

    I have been reading the help files, tutorials, etc. and not really getting anywhere on this specific problem.  I am leaning a LOT about PDN that I will probably never need since really all I am trying to do is this one procedure.  But I can not figure out how to make less of the magenta bleed around the symbols I am using.  I thought maybe your suggestion to turn off anti aliasing would be an easy solution if it worked.  The only place to do that I can find is in the selection clipping mode drop-down.  So I changed it to pixelated but it really did not make much of a difference at all.  Just for testing, I used a 256X256 .bmp of the same symbol and it looks great.  Way too huge, but perfect.  Once that image is reduced to 32x32 it bleeds the magenta like crazy.  Frustrating.

    Transparent background disappearing?

    in Paint.NET Discussion and Questions

    Posted

    1 minute ago, toe_head2001 said:

    If you take a close look at the  ?  image, it doesn't uses Alpha Blended edges. Or in other words, it has aliased edges as opposed to anti-aliased edges.

    That is a foreign language to me.  I have no idea what you mean but that may be the real problem, my lack of knowledge. I just read a couple of Google links to aliased edges so I understand it a little.  A couple of things here on this forum talk about aliased vs anti aliased and discuss how the 2nd layer is filled.  I did not really follow it though.  Could it be the way I filled the magenta layer with the bucket set to global? 

    Transparent background disappearing?

    in Paint.NET Discussion and Questions

    Posted

    So thanks all!  I got this to pretty much work.  I have a file like in the screenshot below.  I size it down to 32X32, save it as a .bmp with the layers flattened, and it works fine on both the GPSr and in BaseCamp.  So I am almost there.  But one thing that is happening that I don't understand. Once saved it looks fine in Paint, but when used in Garmin BaseCamp and on the GPSr, it does have a "transparent" background as expected, showing only the sign post...  Except that there is a shadow or bleeding or something of the magenta color all around the signpost. So it is as if there is a magenta glow coming out from behind the post?  What is that from and is there a way to fix it?

    Symbol3.PNG

    Transparent background disappearing?

    in Paint.NET Discussion and Questions

    Posted · Edited by WillT

    @Eli Yes!  I bet you are correct and that makes sense to me reading the instructions posted above from Garmin.  So now I should refine the original question to this:

     

    How do I take an image file and save it so that it has the FF00FF or 255, 0, 255 color like in the posted screenshot above or this one below.  I can't find how to do it in PND.  

    Here are the Garmin instructions again that others are following successfully somehow. At least one person does it using PDN.

    1. Create a custom symbol with the following guidelines:
      • Create an image that is no larger than 32 pixels in width or height
      • Create transparent pixels by setting the color to magenta (RGB= 255, 0, 255)
    2. Save the custom symbol with the following guidelines:
      • If applicable, ensure no color space information is saved

    Symbol2.PNG

    Transparent background disappearing?

    in Paint.NET Discussion and Questions

    Posted

    12 minutes ago, BoltBait said:

     

    BMP files don't support transparency.

     

    Maybe I am using the wrong descriptions?  Maybe the .bmp file I have that work great, like the one in the screen shot above, do not actually have transparent backgrounds.  Maybe they create the "appearance" of a transparent image somehow with this step which I do not understand how to do: 

      • Create transparent pixels by setting the color to magenta (RGB= 255, 0, 255)

    Transparent background disappearing?

    in Paint.NET Discussion and Questions

    Posted · Edited by WillT

    I am hearing that but I have several .bmp files that work.  They were made following the instructions I posted above, (which I can't seem to follow correctly).  They have transparent backgrounds, (or maybe no backgrounds), when displayed on the Garmin products.  They have magenta backgrounds when viewed in Windows Explorer so maybe they are not actually transparent? I was going to upload one of the files I have that are .bmp files but the forum here will not allow an upload of a bmp file so here is a screen shot (which is.png) of one of the icons, (that is.bmp) that works. (I did not make it.)

     

     

    symbol.PNG

    Transparent background disappearing?

    in Paint.NET Discussion and Questions

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Eli said:

    You need two layers. You will also need Boltbait's Tranparency plugin.

    The upper layer is your image with transparent background.

    Use the bucket to cover the bottom layer with color FF00FF. Then run the Transparency adjustment plugin and bring the slider down to -100.

    Save it as a PNG file. :) 

     

    I will look at that and see if I can figure out what you are saying.  But as noted above, the file needs to be saved as a .bmp file, not .png so not sure if that will work.  I do know it is possible because I have several symbol files made by others using PDN that are .bmp files.  They show up on the Garmin products with no background and when viewed in Windows, they have a magenta background.

    Transparent background disappearing?

    in Paint.NET Discussion and Questions

    Posted · Edited by WillT

    Thanks.  The maps I am working on are to be used on Garmin GPSrs and Garmin BaseCamp.  Below are the exact instructions I am trying to follow.  The files need to be .bmp to work with the Garmin products.  Other people have done this using Paint.net and I have used their map icon/symbols.  They are in .bmp format and have no square background that blocks out part of the map.  What they tell me is to be sure to use the correct color depth which I don't see how to do.  Their icons when viewed in windows have magenta backgrounds while mine do not.  So I am missing how to do it correctly. 

     

    When I have asked them all they tell me is that they use Paint.net and follow the below instructions. I know it says the files can be either .bmp or .png, but the reality is that .png does not seem to work with Garmin when you are trying to sync and use the same symbols on both the GPSr and in BaseCamp.  So everyone uses, and Garmin now says, use .bmp files. The files I have been sent that are done by others and ready to go are .bmp with the symbol on the magenta background and work perfectly.  I just can not get the symbols I am making myself to have the magenta background instead of opaque white.   I believe it is the 3rd bullet point that they are doing correctly and I am not.  How do I accomplish that?  Thanks again for the help.

     

    • Saved as a 24-bit Windows Bitmap (.BMP) or Portable Network Graphics (.PNG) file format
    • Saved named must be 000 through 063 (E.G., 044.BMP or 044.PNG) 
    • Transparency is allowed by using the RGB color Magenta(255,0,255) or hex color code: ff00ff

    Found Garmin's current instructions on this which are basically the same but no longer recommending the .png format:

     

    1. Create a custom symbol with the following guidelines:
      • Create an image that is no larger than 32 pixels in width or height
      • Create transparent pixels by setting the color to magenta (RGB= 255, 0, 255)
    2. Save the custom symbol with the following guidelines:
      • If applicable, ensure no color space information is saved
      • Ensure the image is saved as a 24-bit Windows-style bitmap format (typically located in Save As dialog box, under advanced options)
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