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Key shortcuts for left-handers


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I just downloaded Paint.net, and it's quite impressive, but because of some minor issues, Windows Paint will still be my favorite.

Most important issue: The regular version supports windows 95 default keys for undo, copy, cut and paste.

Ctrl-Insert : Copy

Shift-Insert : Paste

Ctrl-Delete : Cut

Alt-Backspace : Undo

As left-hander these shortcuts are much easier to use than the ctrl-c/ctrl-v.

Other issues:

In Windows Paint resizing the client area is easily done, by dragging anchors.

The line and shade around the edit area gives a nice effect, but makes it less clear what is part of the graphic I am working on. I had this problem while trying to edit a graphical messagebox with it's own line and shadow.

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If you want to get rid of the shade inside the selection area you can simply switch to the Move Selected Pixels tool or to the Move Selection tool after you've made your selection. The Move Selection tool will let you adjust the selection area without making any changes to the image.

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- DO NOT contact me asking for the .pdn of my avatar or the PDN logo. Thank you. Have a nice day.

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  • 2 weeks later...
If you want to get rid of the shade inside the selection area you can simply switch to the Move Selected Pixels tool or to the Move Selection tool after you've made your selection. The Move Selection tool will let you adjust the selection area without making any changes to the image.

No, I wasn't talking about selections. But never mind, I just uninstalled Paint.Net. It's a nice try and it has some nice features, but I will stick with regular Paint, for quick edits it still is much better.

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Oh ok, I get what you're talking about now. You're talking about the thin black outline on the canvas area and the drop shadow under it. The black outline used to irritate me when I first started using the app but now I don't even realize it's there anymore. The drop shadow on the other hand still gives me problems at times. I guess the handles on the canvas in MS Paint makes it easier to resize the canvas area for people who tend to just use the mouse and not the keyboard shortcuts.

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- DO NOT contact me asking for the .pdn of my avatar or the PDN logo. Thank you. Have a nice day.

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I need a simple paintprogram to do things like enlarge a custom made dialog, or replace a letter on a tooltip button. These graphics have their own shadow or black line already.

To enlarge the canvas with one or 2 pixels is faster by dragging an anchor, than going through some dialog, but true, I could have missed some keyboard shortcuts.

But most important for me, any application not supporting ctrl-ins/shift-ins for copying and pasting, I will never use.

My advise for the developers of Paint.net, take another look at MS Paint. There are a few more little things that are done better in MS Paint. Such as the undo (undoing a copy/paste erases the selection area), transparent/opaque selection mode, mousepointer over anchors)

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To enlarge the canvas with one or 2 pixels is faster by dragging an anchor, than going through some dialog, but true, I could have missed some keyboard shortcuts.

Ctrl+Shift+R and then pressing the up-arrow a few times is pretty fast too. I loathe the way MS Paint handles resizing, as it is inaccurate and (user-)error prone.

But most important for me, any application not supporting ctrl-ins/shift-ins for copying and pasting, I will never use.

Sorry to hear that.

My advise for the developers of Paint.net, take another look at MS Paint. There are a few more little things that are done better in MS Paint. Such as the undo (undoing a copy/paste erases the selection area), transparent/opaque selection mode, mousepointer over anchors)

I couldn't disagree more. Our undo system is far superior to Paint's, and I don't have any idea what you mean by "undoing copy/paste erases the selection area." I just tried that in Paint.NET, it does not happen -- our history system keeps track of pretty much everything. The transparent/opaque mode in Paint is a horrible crutch because of the lack of alpha channel support, and it has really warped people's expectations on how image editing is supposed to work.

Right now the only thing Paint has that Paint.NET does not have is that useless spray can tool.

The Paint.NET Blog: https://blog.getpaint.net/

Donations are always appreciated! https://www.getpaint.net/donate.html

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  • 2 weeks later...

@Rick:

It all depends what hand is free for keyboard use, what keyshortcuts someone prefers. Also I only am an occasional user of paintprograms, so no real interest to learn all shortcuts.

But true, MS paint resizing could be improved by allowing the arrow keys to work when an area is selected.

Where Paintnet goes wrong with undoing or deleting, is when you paste a selection into an image. When you delete that selection it also deletes the area beneath the selection. Furthermore does PaintNet undo remember a bit too much for my taste, but that is something I can learn to live with.

Alpha channel support is great, and is something MS Paint definately misses. But I also need the transparent/opaque mode for selections, the magic wand will not do. But maybe there is another way to do this.

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There is Layers. Or Global Selection (Shift + Magic Wand).

But I don't understand Rick's position about the left-handed Copy/Paste shortcuts.

No. Way. I've just seen Bob. And... *poof!*—just like that—he disappears into the mist again. ~Helio

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Where Paintnet goes wrong with undoing or deleting, is when you paste a selection into an image. When you delete that selection it also deletes the area beneath the selection.

So paste it on to a new layer. Ctrl+Shift+V.

But I don't understand Rick's position about the left-handed Copy/Paste shortcuts.

I don't have a position on them. I didn't even know they existed until "Bill" started telling me to "take another look at Paint."

The Paint.NET Blog: https://blog.getpaint.net/

Donations are always appreciated! https://www.getpaint.net/donate.html

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There is Layers. Or Global Selection (Shift + Magic Wand).

I tried the wand, but I can't get it to do what I want it to do. Let me give an example. Take an area, half red, half blue. On the red half some text is typed. And I want cut and pasted on the blue half. In MS Paint, I would set the background (secondary) color to red, set selection mode to transparent, select text area, and drag it to the blue half. It doesn't give perfect results, but in many cases good enough, and can be done in only 6 clicks and without shortcut keys.

The transparent/opaque mode in Paint is a horrible crutch because of the lack of alpha channel support, and it has really warped people's expectations on how image editing is supposed to work.

I gave this remark some thought, and I disagree with you. I think alpha channel support is something different, and also not everyone uses image editing software for the same purpose. My warped expectations of software are that software should be smarter than me and make my life easier.

So paste it on to a new layer. Ctrl+Shift+V.

Nice workaround, but I rather see the bug fixed. But how do I merge the temporary layer back into the background?

I was wrong before, the Undo works fine, only the delete is bugged.

The Ctrl-Ins/Shift-Ins for copy and paste is Windows standard since Windows 95, I even think it's required for a Microsoft's "Designed for Windows" certification. Only Mac based applications don't support it.

In a previous post you said that the only thing Paint has that Paint.Net doesn't have is the useless spray tool. Besides that a good spray tool can be somewhat useful, it isn't about the amount of features, but it's all about usability. Take for instance an on first looks simple game, Pacman. I have seen hundreds of adaptations of it, but none ever topped the original, because makers of the copies missed the little things. Same goes for Paint.Net, it now is a Photoshop Lite, and I hoped it to be a Paint Plus.

For example, for selections Paint.Net has 3 modes compared to Paint's single mode. I understand the advantages of the new selection modes, but I think a few small changes can make it much easier. Like after making a selection rectangle, automatically change to 'Move Selection' mode, if you drag/click from inside the selection rectangle, change to 'Move Selected Pixels' mode. To get back 'Move Selection' mode, use either the toolbox button or click Top-Right Anchor. To start another selection rectangle make one outside the existing area (or use the button).

Also don't forget to add a context sensitive popup menu under the right mouse button, but then you have an extension instead of a functional replacement, old Paint users probably won't even notice the difference at first, but all new stuff is still there. Don't get me wrong about my reaction, I think the features in Paint.Net are good, but the user interface can be improved, and in this, I think that in some areas crappy old Paint does a better job.

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I tried the wand, but I can't get it to do what I want it to do.

Just disable alphablending and antialiasing. Or create a new layer, it not actually a big effort.

(Thanks for the shortcut, Rick, I promise you I will read the Help some day :)

But how do I merge the temporary layer back into the background?

Image > Flatten.

I was wrong before, the Undo works fine, only the delete is bugged.

It's not bugged, Undo shortcut is Ctrl + Z. Delete key delete the selection.

you said that the only thing Paint has that Paint.Net doesn't have is the useless spray tool.

Private joke.

Like after making a selection rectangle, automatically change to 'Move Selection' mode.

PdN allow you to do step by step selections.(http://www.eecs.wsu.edu/paint.net/doc/2.6/Help/en/SelectionTools.html) This will be annoying for people you want to use this trick.

Also don't forget to add a context sensitive popup menu under the right mouse button

Tablet-PCs focused reasons (just a pen, not always another button)

And finally:I don't have a position on [left-handed keyboards shortcuts].

Did this mean we can expect it for a near future?

Anyways, interesting discussion!

No. Way. I've just seen Bob. And... *poof!*—just like that—he disappears into the mist again. ~Helio

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Nice workaround, but I rather see the bug fixed. But how do I merge the temporary layer back into the background?

I was wrong before, the Undo works fine, only the delete is bugged.

It's actually not a bug, it's working just fine. What's happening is that when you press Delete, the Move tool is deactivated so that the Erase Selection command can perform its action. Deactivating the Move tool causes it to "drop" (or "commit") whatever pixels it was working with on to the current layer.

But in thinking about it I don't believe it'd be too hard to change the behavior. Basically the Move tool would have to get a first-chance to handle the delete key. From a UI perspective this might mean changing the text in the Edit menu to "Discard selected area" or something, while the Move Selected Pixels is active with a "lifted" selection.

Same goes for Paint.Net, it now is a Photoshop Lite, and I hoped it to be a Paint Plus.

Being called "Photoshop Lite" is something I see as a good thing, as is it closer to what we're aiming for nowadays.

For example, for selections Paint.Net has 3 modes compared to Paint's single mode. I understand the advantages of the new selection modes, but I think a few small changes can make it much easier. Like after making a selection rectangle, automatically change to 'Move Selection' mode, if you drag/click from inside the selection rectangle, change to 'Move Selected Pixels' mode. To get back 'Move Selection' mode, use either the toolbox button or click Top-Right Anchor. To start another selection rectangle make one outside the existing area (or use the button).

Like Bob said, this would defeat the ability to augment selections. In addition, I think it would be confusing to the user to have the active tool changed "under their nose." We have deliberately chosen a more Photoshop-style interface here because it enables much more sophisticated editing. Also, we cannot have the selection tools do double-duty as "Move Selected Pixels" tools (e.g. when you have the mouse "inside" the selection) for many reasons.

Also don't forget to add a context sensitive popup menu under the right mouse button, but then you have an extension instead of a functional replacement, old Paint users probably won't even notice the difference at first, but all new stuff is still there.

I'm pretty sure we'll be able to get in some right-click menus in some key areas for our next big release. We've just never had the time to get a good foundation for this in place.

Don't get me wrong about my reaction, I think the features in Paint.Net are good, but the user interface can be improved,and in this, I think that in some areas crappy old Paint does a better job.

Well I disagree that Paint does a better job. And of course the UI can be improved, although I'd hardly hold Paint up on a pedestal in this area. But when comparing to the likes of GIMP, Digital Image Suite, and Paintshop Pro, Paint.NET comes out ahead in terms of a simplicity:power ratio. And Paint.NET may not be as simple as Paint, but it is much more powerful.

The Paint.NET Blog: https://blog.getpaint.net/

Donations are always appreciated! https://www.getpaint.net/donate.html

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It's actually not a bug, it's working just fine.

I assumed it was a bug, because I expect the Selection Area to be a temporary layer.

For example, for selections Paint.Net has 3 modes compared to Paint's single mode. I understand the advantages of the new selection modes, but I think a few small changes can make it much easier. Like after making a selection rectangle, automatically change to 'Move Selection' mode, if you drag/click from inside the selection rectangle, change to 'Move Selected Pixels' mode. To get back 'Move Selection' mode, use either the toolbox button or click Top-Right Anchor. To start another selection rectangle make one outside the existing area (or use the button).

Like Bob said, this would defeat the ability to augment selections. In addition, I think it would be confusing to the user to have the active tool changed "under their nose." We have deliberately chosen a more Photoshop-style interface here because it enables much more sophisticated editing. Also, we cannot have the selection tools do double-duty as "Move Selected Pixels" tools (e.g. when you have the mouse "inside" the selection) for many reasons.

I followed Bob's link. If I rephrase the 'automatically change' to 'a mouseclick automatically changes' it won't conflict with augment selections. To add another selection the Ctrl has to be pressed. I don't think it will be very confusing, but some well chosen mousepointers could help.

But maybe I am just lazy when I say I like software to assume I am doing common tasks till I tell otherwise.

Image > Flatten.

There is Layers. Or Global Selection (Shift + Magic Wand).

Thanks for the help, I also followed your link.

The image > flatten works on all layers, but couldn't find how to merge a single layer into the background.

And it took me some time, but now I know think I understand how to make my selection. It is a little more difficult than in Paint, but I can do better selections.

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