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Which web browser is most likely to create the next revolutionary feature for web browsing?  

92 members have voted

  1. 1. Which web browser is most likely to create the next revolutionary feature for web browsing?

    • Mozilla/ Firefox
      52
    • Apple Safari
      2
    • Opera
      12
    • Internet Explorer
      6
    • Unkown Party
      13
    • Dont care
      8


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+1 to the Opera team.

Now if only CMD finds this :lol:

Found you! ;)

Now prepare for a novel...

20 bloody extensions!

I actually removed a couple of details off the default Opera config since I don't use panels and such.

I have 24 extensions, and they all make my experience better. I'm not very familiar with Opera, but does it have an eyedropper that allows you to sample any color on the page, or a DOM color analyzer?(1) Can you control just about any media player of your choice right from your status bar or stream any music file linked on a web page without having to download the file itself and open it in a player?(2) How about inserting YouTube video download links - your choice of standard, HQ, or HD formats - right on the video page?(3) Can you shrink your tabs to just the Favicon to conserve space when you've got bunches of tabs open,(4) or colorize each tab based upon the color of the favicon for that page?(5) Can you force anchors with target="" attributes to ignore those target attributes - or force targets of your own - (6) or customize the HTTP headers your browser sends?(7) How about direct Cooliris integration, or direct Web of Trust integration for enhanced site security information in real-time? User styles on a per-URI basis with a live-editor?(8) User scripts?(9) Per-URI script access control management in your status bar?(10)

Check the number code in the parentheses after a feature and find that number in the Extension List at the end of this post to see which extension does that.

Firefox doesn't come with any of this (except web page security threat warnings of course, but WOT enhances this and warns on lesser severities with greater, categorical detail), but extensions give me all of it. I'd also mention Firebug and Web Developer, but you've got Dragonfly, the many faults of which I will discuss in my rebuttal to your next statement. ;)

I am honestly totally sold-out to Opera, I think it's the most innovative browser, and of course it's a little hard to get used to it at very first, but once you know it well enough (a couple of days at most), mouse gestures, speed dial, the developper tools (which work FAR better than on any other browser), everything is wonderful.

I have relatively few beefs with Opera as a browser, but calling it innovative is a stretch. It renders pages pretty well, I believe it was one of the first with a sidebar, and I certainly envy its ability to change visual style without restarting the browser, but it doesn't really "wow" me with anything. If Opera were the pioneers behind Mouse Gestures in browser interfaces, I'll give them that as well, but I'm not sure of the history. Generally, innovation comes from individuals, not corporations. Corporations need proof-of-concepts and cost-benefit ratios and such, where as individuals just need free time. I was enjoying Firebug long before Opera introduced Dragonfly, and Firebug works better.

Which brings me to your touting of Opera's developer tools.

First annoyance: no shortcut. F12 in Firefox for Firebug, F12 in IE for the IE Developer Toolbar, nothing for Webkit's analyzer (Chrome and Safari) or Dragonfly in Opera. Nope: Click Tools, hover over Advanced, wheel down to Developer Tools, wait for Dragonfly to load. Points for Firebug there.

Edit: I did a little digging in the Customize Shortcuts thingy. Turns out it's [Ctrl]+[shift]+[I] in Opera. Why they don't let you know with the customary notation on the right side in the menu item is beyond me...

Secondly, what's up with the focus? Why in the mighty name of pork is it that when I switch to a new tab, I'm still looking at the DOM of the page in the last tab? Why can't I at least click on an element in this new tab to automatically refocus Dragonfly to the DOM of the page I'm currently viewing? Why do I have to switch back to the "Documents" tab at the bottom of Dragonfly, switch to the entry for the new domain in the drop-down, and click the appropriate link in the list of pages for that domain to get at the DOM for the page that I'm already looking at right freaking here!? Also, mouse wheel scrolling focus is generally screwed in Opera. With Firebug, each container - including the document window - is given scrolling focus when it's moused over - similar to iTunes or Songbird or the like. With Dragonfly, sometimes I have to click in an area before I can scroll it, sometimes I don't, sometimes wheeling does nothing...

Further, why doesn't it go away? With Firebug, if I don't open it in a tab, it's not open for that tab. So, say I'm troubleshooting a Javascript error, and I have the Error Console open on the offending page and a jQuery reference manual open in another tab. With Firebug, I can actually have the console open and pinned to the offending page - having it pinned reducing the focus issues incurred with having it as a pop-out - and still have enough viewable area to read in the tab with the manual open!

Another thing: Why must it force a page reload when I open it? If I'm not planning on encountering an error, but I do get hit by one, I can't just open Dragonfly and see what's up, I have to open Dragonfly, wait for the reload, then try and replicate whatever may have triggered the error before. Fun times.

Comparatively, the Javascript debugger in Dragonfly is just about useless too. It outputs an infodump - which is at the very least better than IE6 - where Firebug gives me the information on the offending Javascript file and the instigating function call, clicking on which takes me directly to Script tab with that line that caused the error highlighted. From there, I can set a breakpoint in the left pane and see detailed stack information and all currently set variables for the time of the error when it occurs again in the right pane. The IE Developer Toolbar in IE8 is also way awesome, allowing for real-time breakpoint spoofing for impromptu analysis of errors, whereas Firebug still needs the error to happen again before the break will fire, which often requires a refresh.

And since they are built-in, I find they behave better than most firefox extensions.

You definitely win that one. I once tried an extension that mimicked Opera's Speed Dial which caused my browser to hang randomly for up to a minute when I opened a new tab. Needless to say, I don't use it anymore.

The only problem with Opera is that not every website is decently coded, and I do happen, although rarely, to have a small display bug, or imageshack not loading the image the first time I click.

Actually, I hate to break it to you, but sometimes the problem is Opera.

Check out this page and hover over "The Oasis Spa". I created that drop-down. I used position:absolute;top:100%; for the submenu list CSS, but Opera either isn't letting the child DIV know the height of the parent LI or isn't applying it correctly, so the submenu covers over the top-level anchor. Even IE6 gets this right.

Check out this page. I added that cool flashy box to the home page. Scroll down to where you can see the five thumbnails under the opening banner. Now mouse over the leftmost thumbnail. The labels that used to be under the thumbnail jump up the page! Scroll down a little more and mouse over the second thumbnail. They jump higher! Scroll up a bit and mouse over the next. They jump down the page! Opera is miscalculating the offset position of the labels because I have them as position:absolute; spans relatively positioned to their parent display:inline; line items. Even IE6 gets this right.

What's more, the other day I was creating a dynamic display fader for another client. They wanted to have a bunch of thumbnails in the fader, and it was on their homepage, so, since they were activated on click events, instead of wasting loading time grabbing all of them every time, I wrote the thing to load the thumbnails but to hold off on loading the large images until the user actually expressed interest in the thing and clicked. Well, every other browser tested (IE7, IE8, Chrome, Safari, Firefox) worked fine, but Opera has this thing where it doesn't load content until it thinks it needs it. I was dynamically generating the new DOM node with the src reference to the new image and a style of display:none;, then triggering a fade-in animation on the "loaded" event trigger for the image - if it was already in cache, it would load right away, and if it wasn't, it would fade in when it was ready instead of show up in chunks as it was streaming in. Well, Opera decided that since it wasn't visible, it didn't need to load it, so it never showed up. I had to spend another 45 minutes rewriting and testing so it let the image be visible for just a split second, triggering Opera's mind to load it, hiding it before it displayed too much, and fading it in again once it was fully loaded.

As far as Imageshack, that even happens to me in Firefox. It's their fault, not the fault of any browser.

So yeah. I'm totally sold out to extensions. Say what you will about the benefits of built-in stuff, but my touch-screen phone has stuff built in, and it's no iPhone. Imagine the iPhone without the AppStore...

As I've said many times, I don't have much against Opera as a browser. It's generally correct, and the rendering faults I stated above are definitely the exceptions, not the rules, but all three have happened within the last few months. Firefox on its own is a good browser with a generally correct rendering engine, putting it on even footing with Opera, but extensions take it so much further. Opera has some features that Firefox doesn't, but show me one truly useful feature of Opera and I'll all but guarantee there's at least one Firefox extension that emulates that behavior. Meanwhile, try getting the Opera people to integrate Twitter directly in the address bar, or force page previews on Google searches. Note that these are just random add-ons I grabbed from the add-on homepage - I wouldn't ever suggest stooping as low as Twitter... ;)

The power of Firefox is the power of its community, and that's why I love it.

Extension reference:


  • 1.
ColorZilla
2. FoxyTunes
3. Easy YouTube Video Downloader
4. FaviconizeTab
5. ChromiFox
6. TargetKiller
7. Modify Headers
8. Stylish
9. Greasemonkey
10. NoScript

I am not a mechanism, I am part of the resistance;

I am an organism, an animal, a creature, I am a beast.

~ Becoming the Archetype

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Share on other sites
+1 to the Opera team.

Now if only CMD finds this :lol:

Found you! ;)

Now prepare for a novel...

20 bloody extensions!

I actually removed a couple of details off the default Opera config since I don't use panels and such.

I have 24 extensions, and they all make my experience better. I'm not very familiar with Opera, but does it have an eyedropper that allows you to sample any color on the page, or a DOM color analyzer?(1) Can you control just about any media player of your choice right from your status bar or stream any music file linked on a web page without having to download the file itself and open it in a player?(2) How about inserting YouTube video download links - your choice of standard, HQ, or HD formats - right on the video page?(3) Can you shrink your tabs to just the Favicon to conserve space when you've got bunches of tabs open,(4) or colorize each tab based upon the color of the favicon for that page?(5) Can you force anchors with target="" attributes to ignore those target attributes - or force targets of your own - (6) or customize the HTTP headers your browser sends?(7) How about direct Cooliris integration, or direct Web of Trust integration for enhanced site security information in real-time? User styles on a per-URI basis with a live-editor?(8) User scripts?(9) Per-URI script access control management in your status bar?(10)

Check the number code in the parentheses after a feature and find that number in the Extension List at the end of this post to see which extension does that.

Firefox doesn't come with any of this (except web page security threat warnings of course, but WOT enhances this and warns on lesser severities with greater, categorical detail), but extensions give me all of it. I'd also mention Firebug and Web Developer, but you've got Dragonfly, the many faults of which I will discuss in my rebuttal to your next statement. ;)

I am honestly totally sold-out to Opera, I think it's the most innovative browser, and of course it's a little hard to get used to it at very first, but once you know it well enough (a couple of days at most), mouse gestures, speed dial, the developper tools (which work FAR better than on any other browser), everything is wonderful.

I have relatively few beefs with Opera as a browser, but calling it innovative is a stretch. It renders pages pretty well, I believe it was one of the first with a sidebar, and I certainly envy its ability to change visual style without restarting the browser, but it doesn't really "wow" me with anything. If Opera were the pioneers behind Mouse Gestures in browser interfaces, I'll give them that as well, but I'm not sure of the history. Generally, innovation comes from individuals, not corporations. Corporations need proof-of-concepts and cost-benefit ratios and such, where as individuals just need free time. I was enjoying Firebug long before Opera introduced Dragonfly, and Firebug works better.

Which brings me to your touting of Opera's developer tools.

First annoyance: no shortcut. F12 in Firefox for Firebug, F12 in IE for the IE Developer Toolbar, nothing for Webkit's analyzer (Chrome and Safari) or Dragonfly in Opera. Nope: Click Tools, hover over Advanced, wheel down to Developer Tools, wait for Dragonfly to load. Points for Firebug there.

Edit: I did a little digging in the Customize Shortcuts thingy. Turns out it's [Ctrl]+[shift]+[I] in Opera. Why they don't let you know with the customary notation on the right side in the menu item is beyond me...

Secondly, what's up with the focus? Why in the mighty name of pork is it that when I switch to a new tab, I'm still looking at the DOM of the page in the last tab? Why can't I at least click on an element in this new tab to automatically refocus Dragonfly to the DOM of the page I'm currently viewing? Why do I have to switch back to the "Documents" tab at the bottom of Dragonfly, switch to the entry for the new domain in the drop-down, and click the appropriate link in the list of pages for that domain to get at the DOM for the page that I'm already looking at right freaking here!? Also, mouse wheel scrolling focus is generally screwed in Opera. With Firebug, each container - including the document window - is given scrolling focus when it's moused over - similar to iTunes or Songbird or the like. With Dragonfly, sometimes I have to click in an area before I can scroll it, sometimes I don't, sometimes wheeling does nothing...

Further, why doesn't it go away? With Firebug, if I don't open it in a tab, it's not open for that tab. So, say I'm troubleshooting a Javascript error, and I have the Error Console open on the offending page and a jQuery reference manual open in another tab. With Firebug, I can actually have the console open and pinned to the offending page - having it pinned reducing the focus issues incurred with having it as a pop-out - and still have enough viewable area to read in the tab with the manual open!

Another thing: Why must it force a page reload when I open it? If I'm not planning on encountering an error, but I do get hit by one, I can't just open Dragonfly and see what's up, I have to open Dragonfly, wait for the reload, then try and replicate whatever may have triggered the error before. Fun times.

Comparatively, the Javascript debugger in Dragonfly is just about useless too. It outputs an infodump - which is at the very least better than IE6 - where Firebug gives me the information on the offending Javascript file and the instigating function call, clicking on which takes me directly to Script tab with that line that caused the error highlighted. From there, I can set a breakpoint in the left pane and see detailed stack information and all currently set variables for the time of the error when it occurs again in the right pane. The IE Developer Toolbar in IE8 is also way awesome, allowing for real-time breakpoint spoofing for impromptu analysis of errors, whereas Firebug still needs the error to happen again before the break will fire, which often requires a refresh.

And since they are built-in, I find they behave better than most firefox extensions.

You definitely win that one. I once tried an extension that mimicked Opera's Speed Dial which caused my browser to hang randomly for up to a minute when I opened a new tab. Needless to say, I don't use it anymore.

The only problem with Opera is that not every website is decently coded, and I do happen, although rarely, to have a small display bug, or imageshack not loading the image the first time I click.

Actually, I hate to break it to you, but sometimes the problem is Opera.

Check out this page and hover over "The Oasis Spa". I created that drop-down. I used position:absolute;top:100%; for the submenu list CSS, but Opera either isn't letting the child DIV know the height of the parent LI or isn't applying it correctly, so the submenu covers over the top-level anchor. Even IE6 gets this right.

Check out this page. I added that cool flashy box to the home page. Scroll down to where you can see the five thumbnails under the opening banner. Now mouse over the leftmost thumbnail. The labels that used to be under the thumbnail jump up the page! Scroll down a little more and mouse over the second thumbnail. They jump higher! Scroll up a bit and mouse over the next. They jump down the page! Opera is miscalculating the offset position of the labels because I have them as position:absolute; spans relatively positioned to their parent display:inline; line items. Even IE6 gets this right.

What's more, the other day I was creating a dynamic display fader for another client. They wanted to have a bunch of thumbnails in the fader, and it was on their homepage, so, since they were activated on click events, instead of wasting loading time grabbing all of them every time, I wrote the thing to load the thumbnails but to hold off on loading the large images until the user actually expressed interest in the thing and clicked. Well, every other browser tested (IE7, IE8, Chrome, Safari, Firefox) worked fine, but Opera has this thing where it doesn't load content until it thinks it needs it. I was dynamically generating the new DOM node with the src reference to the new image and a style of display:none;, then triggering a fade-in animation on the "loaded" event trigger for the image - if it was already in cache, it would load right away, and if it wasn't, it would fade in when it was ready instead of show up in chunks as it was streaming in. Well, Opera decided that since it wasn't visible, it didn't need to load it, so it never showed up. I had to spend another 45 minutes rewriting and testing so it let the image be visible for just a split second, triggering Opera's mind to load it, hiding it before it displayed too much, and fading it in again once it was fully loaded.

As far as Imageshack, that even happens to me in Firefox. It's their fault, not the fault of any browser.

So yeah. I'm totally sold out to extensions. Say what you will about the benefits of built-in stuff, but my touch-screen phone has stuff built in, and it's no iPhone. Imagine the iPhone without the AppStore...

As I've said many times, I don't have much against Opera as a browser. It's generally correct, and the rendering faults I stated above are definitely the exceptions, not the rules, but all three have happened within the last few months. Firefox on its own is a good browser with a generally correct rendering engine, putting it on even footing with Opera, but extensions take it so much further. Opera has some features that Firefox doesn't, but show me one truly useful feature of Opera and I'll all but guarantee there's at least one Firefox extension that emulates that behavior. Meanwhile, try getting the Opera people to integrate Twitter directly in the address bar, or force page previews on Google searches. Note that these are just random add-ons I grabbed from the add-on homepage - I wouldn't ever suggest stooping as low as Twitter... ;)

The power of Firefox is the power of its community, and that's why I love it.

Extension reference:


  • 1.
ColorZilla
2. FoxyTunes
3. Easy YouTube Video Downloader
4. FaviconizeTab
5. ChromiFox
6. TargetKiller
7. Modify Headers
8. Stylish
9. Greasemonkey
10. NoScript

I am not a mechanism, I am part of the resistance;

I am an organism, an animal, a creature, I am a beast.

~ Becoming the Archetype

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Share on other sites

Wow Crazy Man Dan ! :shock:

I don't how long you spent for this reply, but I totally agree with you. :D

I'll just add my way to see it, as a simple user.

I would compare my Firefox with a car in france (my country).

Here, whan you by a car, you just receive 4 wheels, an engine, a streering wheel and a seat.

Everything else is optionnal.

That's what i do like with Firefox : I can choose only what is really necessary for me and only that.

When PineappleQc says 20 bloody extensions!, this is not too much. I know people using much more ... :lol:

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Wow Crazy Man Dan ! :shock:

I don't how long you spent for this reply, but I totally agree with you. :D

I'll just add my way to see it, as a simple user.

I would compare my Firefox with a car in france (my country).

Here, whan you by a car, you just receive 4 wheels, an engine, a streering wheel and a seat.

Everything else is optionnal.

That's what i do like with Firefox : I can choose only what is really necessary for me and only that.

When PineappleQc says 20 bloody extensions!, this is not too much. I know people using much more ... :lol:

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Share on other sites
no kidding about the novel reference... that was... way too long.

That's because when I make claims, I back them up with proof. Besides, I say it's never too long until PHPBB tells me it's too big for a database record. ;)

Wow Crazy Man Dan ! :shock:

I don't how long you spent for this reply, but I totally agree with you. :D

Oh, I started it about 5 hours before I posted it, and worked on it intermittently during that time - I was also discussing with d.a over IM about why I think the Wii is hurting gaming as a whole. I did some testing to make sure what I was saying was true and relevant, made several revisions, a few grammar-correction pass-throughs... Basically, it was more researched and carefully written than most of my college papers. :D

I am not a mechanism, I am part of the resistance;

I am an organism, an animal, a creature, I am a beast.

~ Becoming the Archetype

Link to post
Share on other sites
no kidding about the novel reference... that was... way too long.

That's because when I make claims, I back them up with proof. Besides, I say it's never too long until PHPBB tells me it's too big for a database record. ;)

Wow Crazy Man Dan ! :shock:

I don't how long you spent for this reply, but I totally agree with you. :D

Oh, I started it about 5 hours before I posted it, and worked on it intermittently during that time - I was also discussing with d.a over IM about why I think the Wii is hurting gaming as a whole. I did some testing to make sure what I was saying was true and relevant, made several revisions, a few grammar-correction pass-throughs... Basically, it was more researched and carefully written than most of my college papers. :D

I am not a mechanism, I am part of the resistance;

I am an organism, an animal, a creature, I am a beast.

~ Becoming the Archetype

Link to post
Share on other sites

And I was hurting his argument by picking his "Wii-hurting-gaming" argument to pieces. He's spot on about Firefox, though. I like how Chrome loads quickly, but the lack of features and extensibility really knocks it out of the running.

Opera users annoy me for the same reason that Mac users do...and IE is right-out. Even IE7's semiadequateness and IE8's apparent betterness isn't enough to make me flip the switch. Microsoft in web browsers is dead to me. :-P

So, yeah. I'm still kinda miffed by the bugs in my copy of Fx, but that doesn't harm my enjoyment of the browser as a whole.

 

The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
Amy: But how did it end up in there?
The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.
River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him.

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And I was hurting his argument by picking his "Wii-hurting-gaming" argument to pieces. He's spot on about Firefox, though. I like how Chrome loads quickly, but the lack of features and extensibility really knocks it out of the running.

Opera users annoy me for the same reason that Mac users do...and IE is right-out. Even IE7's semiadequateness and IE8's apparent betterness isn't enough to make me flip the switch. Microsoft in web browsers is dead to me. :-P

So, yeah. I'm still kinda miffed by the bugs in my copy of Fx, but that doesn't harm my enjoyment of the browser as a whole.

 

The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
Amy: But how did it end up in there?
The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.
River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him.

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