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Cornipsus
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Because you haven't used any facts or logic to back up your case, just emotion and assumption.

EDIT: Also, you've completely ignored every post we've made. We expect the same respect we're giving you.

 

The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
Amy: But how did it end up in there?
The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.
River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him.

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Before that happens, I'd like to reiterate my point.

I think there should be some standardization applied so that the laws pertaining to obtaining a handgun aren't so drastically different from state to state.

I do believe in the Bill of Rights, (2nd amendment in this case). Yes, I am a gun owner. Three in fact, and looking at a fourth. I do believe we have a right to bear arms, unless given cause such as mental illnesses, prior criminal record and so forth.

I have no problems with limiting the ownership of firearms among certain parts of the population (as you said, Convicted Criminals [atleast those who's crime(s) are/were violent], and those with certain mental illnesses [which would probably include me at some level]). And I agree that the laws need to me standardized, something that we should hopefully get with Heller.

Why does nobody here ever agree with me?

Because you keep parroting the same line over and over even after I've shot it down. That and the fact that you haven't said how you plan on removing the right to bear arms from the American Public, not to mention the weapons themselves.

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And we're asking you for proof of that statement, and to present some way of getting the guns out of their hands even if it did work.

 

The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
Amy: But how did it end up in there?
The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.
River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him.

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There were no eagle scouts to jump on this grenade.

The evidence is this: If criminals didn't have guns, it would be harder for them to commit crimes, so they would commit less crimes.

prove it because all you are giving us a whole bunch of butt holes (opinions)

sig.jpg

~97% of teens won't stand up for Anything. Put this on your sig if you're one of the 3% who've fallen down trying.

Oh, and there's 3 types of people in this world...

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It's a bit of an irrelevant statement anyway, criminals will always have guns, they'll go to any length to get them.

But 'no guns' might help to reduce deaths where there would be just be normal fights normally - a gun, being a ranged weapon, kills easier than, say, knifes. And they're faster than bows since you don't have to put the 'arrow' on it manually (who uses bows anyway.. proper bows shoot through bullet-proof vests easily though)

And of course small kids are less likely to accidentally use a knife 'successfully'.

Limited* proof that gun control works: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate

(tip: sort on "Total firearm-related death rate" or "Firearm homicide")

*: real proof would be like this: first measure the firearm-related deaths in a country without gun control, then in the same country, at the same time, and with the same people (yes this requires you to go back in time) do the same with gun control. So there is no way to really proof it works, but this page kind of proves either that: "gun control works" or "Americans just like to kill each other over twice as much as the people in the second-highest country (Finland)"

Brazil is the loser of the developing countries btw (for the people who are too lazy to look at the page)

by the way, I really like the place of the Netherlands in that list

edit: to complete the proof a bit more: most west-European countries have gun control

I would write plugins, if I knew what kind of plugins were needed.. :(

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There were no eagle scouts to jump on this grenade.

The evidence is this: If criminals didn't have guns, it would be harder for them to commit crimes, so they would commit less crimes.

Alright. I hereby point to the City of Washington DC - a place where a law was in place that banned handguns from being owned by anyone other than current or former Law Enforcement officers, and those registered before 1976.

The Crime Rate in DC is roughtly 2.6 times the national average. Link

The Crime Rate in Kennesaw Georgia (where the head of a household MUST own and Maintain a firearmLink) is roughtly .15 times the national average. Link

Obviously, the banning of Guns didn't work.

edit: to complete the proof a bit more: most west-European countries have gun control

True, but I am under the impression that the current discussion is relevent to the United States of America. The fact that you guys over in Europe have fewer guns. You also tend to have Top-Down systems of law (where peoples rights are what the government says they are), instead of the US system of Bottom-Up rule of law (where in theory the government is limited by the people).

Edit- In other words you guys (in the Netherlands, UK, Scandinavia, and other countries with a monarch) are subjects of the Monarch in question. In the USA the Government is a servant of the people.

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There were no eagle scouts to jump on this grenade.

The evidence is this: If criminals didn't have guns, it would be harder for them to commit crimes, so they would commit less crimes.

Yes, that is true. However, we are telling you that it is nearly impossible to keep a gun out of a determined criminals hands.

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There were no eagle scouts to jump on this grenade.

The evidence is this: If criminals didn't have guns, it would be harder for them to commit crimes, so they would commit less crimes.

think of it this way, criminals break the law, so what makes you think that they would not break the law to get a gun?

sig.jpg

~97% of teens won't stand up for Anything. Put this on your sig if you're one of the 3% who've fallen down trying.

Oh, and there's 3 types of people in this world...

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The Crime Rate in Kennesaw Georgia (where the head of a household MUST own and Maintain a firearmLink) is roughtly .15 times the national average. Link

I see what you're getting at there, but could you compare a more populated city to an equally populated city? Kennesaw has an estimated population of 30,522 (2005 census). It is considered a suburb of Atlanta. Washington D.C. has an estimated population of 588,292 (2007 census). You are comparing the crime rates of a city that is about 19 times the other in population. Surely the size of the city has something to do with crime rates, no?

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But in that small suburb, the household MUST have and maintain a firearm according to his source.

I'm not denying that the requirement of having a firearm decreased crime rate, I am just pointing out that crime rate would already be extremely low compared to a large city.

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I wouldn't think that would have much effect as it's a suburb of a large city, thus still in the same metropolitan area.

For instance, the city I live in has a relatively low crime rate, yet it's on a commuter train stop coming from Chicago, and there's a gas station within 2 blocks of the train stop. This aforementioned gas station gets robbed at least once a month.

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There were no eagle scouts to jump on this grenade.

The evidence is this: If criminals didn't have guns, it would be harder for them to commit crimes, so they would commit less crimes.

think of it this way, criminals break the law, so what makes you think that they would not break the law to get a gun?

If you destroyed guns, there would be no guns for them to use.

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Again - HOW? Please answer this question before stating that old, tired line again.

 

The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
Amy: But how did it end up in there?
The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.
River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him.

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Share on other sites

edit: to complete the proof a bit more: most west-European countries have gun control

True, but I am under the impression that the current discussion is relevent to the United States of America. The fact that you guys over in Europe have fewer guns. You also tend to have Top-Down systems of law (where peoples rights are what the government says they are), instead of the US system of Bottom-Up rule of law (where in theory the government is limited by the people).

Edit- In other words you guys (in the Netherlands, UK, Scandinavia, and other countries with a monarch) are subjects of the Monarch in question. In the USA the Government is a servant of the people.

Our monarch is just for show, she doesn't actually do anything (in fact she isn't allowed to)

Why I said it was because you'd be comparing just some random numbers otherwise, if you don't know that there is gun control in Europe then the list of numbers does not relate to the subject in any way - if you do know it then you are comparing the scores of countries with gun control and countries without gun control.

Oh and we vote for our governments too you know, just not for our president - because there isn't one (though is this queen who sits around and opens monuments etc)

I would write plugins, if I knew what kind of plugins were needed.. :(

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My apologies, but that's patently ludicrous. You haven't yet even presented any way of getting guns out of the hands of criminals in mycountry, and now you're trying to say it's reasonable to expect to get them away from anyone. Ridiculous! Cuba wouldn't. North Korea wouldn't. Hardly anyone would. How can you possibly expect that idea to work?

 

The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
Amy: But how did it end up in there?
The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.
River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him.

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Share on other sites

I'm not denying that the requirement of having a firearm decreased crime rate, I am just pointing out that crime rate would already be extremely low compared to a large city.

Well It's lower (significantly) than in other suburbs of Atlanta;

Link

Link

Link

And even Atlanta itself Link

Oh and we vote for our governments too you know, just not for our president - because there isn't one (though is this queen who sits around and opens monuments etc)

Trust me, I do understand that the end result is almost the same (and I know you guys have a Parliamentary bicameral legislature), and it is useful to have a head of state that is not the Head of Government, but for me it's the principle of the thing. Here the government can try to tell us what not to do, while in most Monarchies (even ceremonial ones like yours) the Government tells people what they can do. It's Semantics for the most part, but for a civil-libertarian like myself, it's an important distinction.

Edit: I do give you guys credit - your country is buying into the RIM-161 program (AKA SM-3), so you guys at least are building out a Theater/Limited Strategic ABM System)

There would be no guns anywhere on Earth, so nobody could use them.

Grasping at straws are you not?

I Give you the following quote from a great Physicist:

“I don't know what weapons will be used in world war three, but in world war four people will use sticks and stones.”

Unless you think you are better than Einstein?

Also - Guess what. Give me (personally) a machine shop like the kind you would find in any third world country or African mud hole, and I could have a set of breach loading weapons (IE weapons equivalent to those found in Europe from the 1400s to the early 1800) inside of 2 weeks, and I never finished my Electrical (not Mechanical or Industrial) Engineering degree!. Guns are not hard to make, heck your own country still makes bolt action rifles that we stoped making 50 years ago! Why? Because they work!

Edit - What I am trying to say is that if you want to get rid of all guns everywhere. then you've set the whole world back to Pre 1300s Europe Levels. the Technology needed to build a gun is the same type needed to build say a mechanical clock, a large bell, and is much simpler than what you need to build a light-bulb or power plant. Seeing as you use a computer, I don't think you would like that world very much.

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My apologies, but that's patently ludicrous. You haven't yet even presented any way of getting guns out of the hands of criminals in mycountry, and now you're trying to say it's reasonable to expect to get them away from anyone. Ridiculous! Cuba wouldn't. North Korea wouldn't. Hardly anyone would. How can you possibly expect that idea to work?

The idea works like this: We crush all the guns in factories so nobody has any.

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