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New rule -- Do not bite newbies


Rick Brewster

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I've gotten some complaints from established members getting "bitten" by other members.

I'm going to extend that rule to cover EVERYONE.

If you want to be rude, do it on another message board. We have no use for it here.

Can't we all just get along? :twisted:

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Well, if this rule is followed then I think it's a step in the right direction. I've lurked for a long time and avoided posting to this forum at all because of the way noobs are treated. Some of the people here on the board are downright nasty. It's no way to treat your fellow Paint.NET enthusiast. People that took the time to create tutorials or images that weren't quite up to what some people consider the standard are flamed and their work is harshly criticized. There are a small handful of more mature posters here that understand forum etiquette, and the younger audience needs to look at their example and emulate it.

I think a large part of the problem is reflected in the results of this poll in The Overflow:

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6676

68% of the responders are between the ages of 10 and 20. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that. It's just that with that young of an audience, you're more apt to find individuals that don't understand how to behave in a mature manner on a forum. I'm old enough to be the father of apparently close to 70% of the people here, and if my children treated strangers the way I've seen some of these people treat others, they'd be taught a lesson that they would not soon forget (end curmudgeon mode :) ).

That said, there are some very talented developers and artists among the youth here. I've learned about the product from many of them. And I appreciate the tutorials and plugins that they've created. I just hope the forum becomes a more civil place where a Paint.NET noob would feel comfortable posting. It isn't there yet. The mere fact that you have to specifically tell people not to start fights and threaten them with banishment is a testament to that fact.

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Hi Blooper & Nigel - glad you liked the boot (I wasn't sure if we were allowed to have fun and post funny pics)...... I'm still shell-shocked from the other day :wink: I have also realised that there are some "young uns'" on this forum who may have forgotten their manners. I just made myself a new sig, below, to reflect:

1. No biting of newbies as well as to show,

2. How, thanks to the great tutorials, I have learned so much in a few days. This is a great website and Rick Brewster is so clever.

30b8T8B.gif

How I made Jennifer & Halle in Paint.net

My Gallery | My Deviant Art

"Rescuing one animal may not change the world, but for that animal their world is changed forever!" anon.

 
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Well, if this rule is followed then I think it's a step in the right direction. I've lurked for a long time and avoided posting to this forum at all because of the way noobs are treated. Some ofThat said, there are some very talented developers and artists among the youth here. I've learned about the product from many of them. And I appreciate the tutorials and plugins that they've created. I just hope the forum becomes a more civil place where a Paint.NET noob would feel comfortable posting. It isn't there yet. The mere fact that you have to specifically tell people not to start fights and threaten them with banishment is a testament to that fact.

Hmm... There must be a couple of factors that have affected me to like this forum:I developed a thick skin after being bashed incessantly in the Stargate Information Archive Forum(Some real trolls on that site), I haven't visited enough of the forum, or I am truly oblivious to what is going on around me. I, too, am a bit older than most of the members who post. I do believe that maturity has to do with part of the issue, or from our generation to theirs senses of humor have truly changed. I personally like one of the younger posters (I'm a bit sarcastic myself) though some of his posts can hit a nerve for some. As a teacher I have learned that communication is essential. If we can keep our criticism constructive, and take others opinions with an open mind, this will be one of the best forums out there. It already is for me :shock:

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Oh agreed. There is a wealth of information on this site. And it's the reason I've been reading it for over a year. But sometimes I just have to walk away because the bashing really gets to me. I frequent other forums where civility and respect is the norm, and trolls are the rare exception. There's no reason why this one can't be the same way.

One of the reasons why I think that some noobs might be afraid to post is the way that noob questions are handled. They are shut down immediately, told to read the rules, and the thread is locked. Granted, many of the rules are common sense, but there's so much moderator and admin intervention, repleat with tersely worded almost rude responses, that it may be setting the wrong example. I believe that the "rules" should be treated as guidelines. Noobs shouldn't be punished for asking questions or unintentionally violating them. Make them feel welcome and they'll become productive members of the community.

Oh, and the "no tutorials as your first post" rule? What if that person has been a lurker on the forum for a long time, understands how the software really works, and has a lot of graphic design experience to share?

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Granted, many of the rules are common sense, but there's so much moderator and admin intervention, repleat with tersely worded almost rude responses, that it may be setting the wrong example. I believe that the "rules" should be treated as guidelines. Noobs shouldn't be punished for asking questions or unintentionally violating them. Make them feel welcome and they'll become productive members of the community.

Oh, and the "no tutorials as your first post" rule? What if that person has been a lurker on the forum for a long time, understands how the software really works, and has a lot of graphic design experience to share?

I happen to agree with you there. I am not even close to being able to create a tutorial, and yet there are those have great ideas. Case in point: A noob pointed out a good way to make a background transparent that many experienced users didn't come up with. And sometimes moderators get a little too into locking forums. I know I have inadvertently hijacked a thread and a member politely told me I was doing so and pointed me in the right direction. Maybe the best solution to the noob tutorial situation is create a noob tutorial thread, allowing those with less than 30 posts to create tutorials without getting their thread locked :twisted: Maybe there is a happy medium between trolls and terse criticism from moderators. I believe in a world where noobs and experts peacefully coexist, where we bite our food, not our noobs! (sorry, bad 2 year old humor)
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Oh, and the "no tutorials as your first post" rule? What if that person has been a lurker on the forum for a long time, understands how the software really works, and has a lot of graphic design experience to share?

Please read the next line in that rule.

FYI, Quite a few 1st post tuts was not locked because of that.

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All creations Ash + Paint.NET [ Googlepage | deviantArt | Club PDN | PDN Fan ]

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Ash,

Yes, I did see the next line. But "good" is highly subjective. Some of the tutorials posted by first time posters to the forum might not be considered "good" by the moderators, but they do illustrate concepts that, while seeming mundane to others, are actually useful to other noobs. And noobs are the whole reason that forums exist. I've seen plenty of decent first time tutorials locked by the mods after being chastised for not reading the rules. And I've seen plenty of tuts posted that got high praise even though the tut wasn't that great.

Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive, but I still feel that this forum is overly hostile to new users with perfectly legitimate questions. I've got questions myself, but am afraid to even ask them for fear of being ridiculed by the mods or other users.

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Ash,

Yes, I did see the next line. But "good" is highly subjective. Some of the tutorials posted by first time posters to the forum might not be considered "good" by the moderators, but they do illustrate concepts that, while seeming mundane to others, are actually useful to other noobs. And noobs are the whole reason that forums exist. I've seen plenty of decent first time tutorials locked by the mods after being chastised for not reading the rules. And I've seen plenty of tuts posted that got high praise even though the tut wasn't that great.

Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive, but I still feel that this forum is overly hostile to new users with perfectly legitimate questions. I've got questions myself, but am afraid to even ask them for fear of being ridiculed by the mods or other users.

Remember, this forum isn't just for beginners (I wouldn't call them n00bs unless they're annoying, personally), it's also for the expeirenced users, and we are always learning over time. People discover new techniques, and discover them. If people create tutorials which are extremely basic and are really just explaining what you can do with a few effects, experimenting is a lot better and a better way to learn. In my opinion, the best way to learn is to learn yourself, but of course everyone needs some help along the way.

If anything we are hostile to, it's questions which have already been answered before, in the rules, or in the Help Guide. That's why it's there, to stop the same questions being repeated, meaning less time wasting for Rick and more time to do on PDN V4.0 :)

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Ash,

Yes, I did see the next line. But "good" is highly subjective. Some of the tutorials posted by first time posters to the forum might not be considered "good" by the moderators, but they do illustrate concepts that, while seeming mundane to others, are actually useful to other noobs. And noobs are the whole reason that forums exist. I've seen plenty of decent first time tutorials locked by the mods after being chastised for not reading the rules. And I've seen plenty of tuts posted that got high praise even though the tut wasn't that great.

Tutorial issues have been talk about many time and to death. I won't start it here again.

If you want you can check viewtopic.php?f=12&t=21140

And there are a few more posts but i'm not gonna dig for em.

Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive, but I still feel that this forum is overly hostile to new users with perfectly legitimate questions. I've got questions myself, but am afraid to even ask them for fear of being ridiculed by the mods or other users.

I don't see why anyone should be afraid? Unless you question is "How do I use plugins" with a title "HELP!!!!!!!"

I don't know what you see on this forum, For me, this is one of the best forum on the web.

People are helpful here, even I been helping so many people on so many problems. Just ask around.

All we ask is follow the rules and read them first and try to use search, is that so hard to do?

One of my early post was posting my work starting a new topic :shock:

BoltBait quickly locked it and told me what to do, I didn't cry and whine about it. I just learn my lesson and move on.

The sky is not falling. If you make mistake, then you make mistake, just learn and correct em. That's just life. No need to be afraid.

I will say this again

"This is one of the best forum on the web, if you think we are harsh, it would be better to just unplug that cable to the internet, because it's gonna be pretty hard to find a forum with more people willing to help than this one"

BTW, I'm lazy Ash, if all I want is to ridicule you, I won't bother to type so much just to try to explain to you :idea: :lol: :idea:

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All creations Ash + Paint.NET [ Googlepage | deviantArt | Club PDN | PDN Fan ]

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I will say this again

"This is one of the best forum on the web, if you think we are harsh, it would be better to just unplug that cable to the internet, because it's gonna be pretty hard to find a forum with more people willing to help than this one"

Hey Ash,

I agree with 90% of that sentiment. Lots of helpful people here, especially you. I've learned a lot just by reading your posts. But if this forum wasn't harsh to newbies (and I mean newbie in a gentle way...we're all newbies at something) then this thread wouldn't have been created.

I'll shut up now. Because it's obvious some people here are way too close to the problem to see it clearly.

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Boy am I glad I just joined today !!! Cause being a blonde hillbilly, I'm gonna need alotta guidance !!! :oops: I'm just sooo amazed at all the talented people and their graphics on their posts !!!! I can't wait till I learn what ya'll know !!!!!! :D

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Boy am I glad I just joined today !!! Cause being a blonde hillbilly, I'm gonna need alotta guidance !!! :oops: I'm just sooo amazed at all the talented people and their graphics on their posts !!!! I can't wait till I learn what ya'll know !!!!!! :D

Please go read the rules: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3446

Then, please explain how many of the rules your post breaks.

Welcome to the board.

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Mr. BoltBait,

I'm truly sorry, Sir. I unfortunately have a tendacy to try and write my post as I hear it in my head. In other words, when I talk, I get very animated and overly excited. I know that rule #5 , no "!!!", "???", and the extra "o's" in the word "so" was definately one I broke. Quite possibly I broke a rule when I chose my first post to be on this particular thread. Also, I meant, being a Newbie, I'm glad I joined after the new, "Do not bite newbies" rule. But, I can not apologize for being a blonde, or a hillbilly,(This is why I say "ya'll".) I will how ever apologize for saying "cause" instead of "because" and "alotta" instead of "a lot of". I promise I will always read and do my best to search for answers to my questions before I ever ask anyones help, Sir. I understand how annoying it would be for the Mods to have to answer the exact same question over and over again. Not to mention what a waste of your time it is. I'm sure being a Mod is both a rewarding and exausting job. I can't imagine someone asking to be a Mod. (rule 19) Clearly if you have to ask to be a Mod, you probably are not qualified. That is a rule I will never break ! Of course the "Must Read All The Rule First" was the biggest and most important rule I broke !

I have to say again that the talented people and impressive graphics they have created are truly amazing to me. I really look forward to learning how to use Paint.Net.

I hope I figured out all the rules I broke in my post. Please let me know if I missed any. I don't want to be a burden to you or anyone else for that matter. I can take any constructive criticism, it's the destructive criticism that is hard to swallow.

Last but not least, "Thanks So Much " for welcoming me to the board, Sir. That sentence alone, made me brave enough to post again and try to correct all the previous mistakes I made. I hope I did better this time !

LuLu

the Embarassed Hillbilly :oops:

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Oops! Did I forget to put the [sarcasm] tags in my post? :oops:

At any rate, welcome to the board and thanks for reading the rules.

I'm sure you'll get along fine here. We have lots of friendly members always willing to help.

Ouch, you are brutal, Sir.

Lots of friendly members, huh, now is that including you? Because I can really feel the warmth from your hot stick you keep jabbing me with! I have yet to find a place that I didn't get along fine in, of course, there's always a first. ( Thought I'd point that out before you had the chance.)

I assume that I found all my faults in my first post, as I noticed you didn't point any others out. Am I correct?

I'll be sure and keep my eyes open for the friendlys around here, I have a feeling they may be few and far between. :wink: :lol:

LuLu

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BoltBait was actually joking both times. We apologize that you took it the wrong way - BoltBait is an incredibly nice guy. Just quite sarcastic. :-)

 

The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
Amy: But how did it end up in there?
The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.
River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him.

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I'd never have guessed ;)

The above words are meant in jest, I also apologise for the utter uselessness of this post

dA

Son, someday you will make a girl happy for a short period of time. Then she'll leave you & be with men that are ten times

better than you can imagine. These men are called musicians. :D

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BoltBait was actually joking both times. We apologize that you took it the wrong way - BoltBait is an incredibly nice guy. Just quite sarcastic. :-)

Oh, is that what that is? I have such a dry sense of humor, I couldn't tell. :P Actually, Sir, I am quite familiar with "Sarcasm" , as I am the Queen of Sarcasm. In other words my last post was dripping with it. You all just might have met your match here. I can stand toe to toe with anybody, literally, because being a hillbilly, I don't have no shoes.

I thought for sure the "Warmth from the hot stick your jabbing me with" would have given it away. If I sounded like I took it the wrong way, it was on purpose. :shock: :lol:

You'll find I love to make people laugh, well ok , I like making myself laugh. Hopefully, I didn't hurt BoltBait's feelings. If I did, lick your wounds and get back on here and show me what ya got ! :lol:

LuLu

the Laughing Hillbilly

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LuLu, you gave me a good ol' chuckle :lol:

Thank you, Mr. Blooper !

Now I'm off to try and figure out how to make a stick figure bow so I'll be ready for the next performance !!

Later,

LuLu :wink:

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I doubt you hurt BoltBait's feelings. I'm glad you understand our particular brand of humor - I think we'll be getting along quite well.

 

The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
Amy: But how did it end up in there?
The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.
River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him.

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