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Straying dangerously close to intolerance, folks.

How so?

Off-topic: Goodbye! Don't worry, not permanent. But still for a very long time. Hopefully, very very long.

Define "a very long time." And why?

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@OMA: Mentoring is no longer a necessity in these areas, at least not right now. Many of the advanced Paint.NET users have come to meet the mentoring potential; that is that they can no longer get substantial amount of worth from mentoring. What this has caused is for the users who believe they have pursued to the longest to really sit and create the same style of art, or what works best for them. Users are no longer truly challenging themselves and their mentors because in their mind there is no more room for that.

For instance, I have gotten many of requests to accomplish my most recent 3D lettering techniques. I started writing the tutorial a little less than a week ago and had to stop writing it because the tutorial had to be created in such depth I didn't have the time to write a 2-3 post long tutorial. As well, I couldn't really help the users PM'ing me because they hadn't yet challenged the basic concepts of Jake2K's most recent 3D lettering tutorial. So I was in a bind: I couldn't help them because they couldn't help themselves.

In my mind, this has created squat artwork. I keep creating the same 3D letters without many people challenging me. You consistently create abstract artwork because you know it is what you like, and not many challenge it without saying "Wow, OMA!". People give too many "Wow"s and not enough "You suck, and here is why." I would have loved if the last three pages of my Pictorium thread was all about how mediocre my work was, and how they have seen much better come from Photoshop. Oh, but wait: that is against the Pictorium rules (to a degree), isn't it?

Honestly, the only solution is too keep on adding mediocre work to the Galleria, and every 5 pages have users 'de-nominate' works with provided reasoning until the Galleria thread is back down to two pages. It is strict, but only keeping 2/5 of all submitted work would also keep it extremely valuable. I think BoltBait is doing an excellent job, and as long as there is no individual Pictorium thread to outshine it it really shouldn't be fixed.

Ultimately, however, what we really need is another ASH for the advanced members. I am not saying that Ash's work isn't amazing, because it is, but he used to create the same greatness when I started on these forums almost two years ago. Imagine the comparison of Ash's work to the next level Paint.NET artist of that time: huge difference, Ash's work was better. We need somebody new with that same margin of excellence. For a minute I thought the answer would have been -Expiration-. However, he became Xpired and started working with Photoshop instead of continuing to challenge himself, which ultimately led to him leaving completely.

Anyways, I am just rambling on now. I'll stop before I get ahead of myself ;)

1. You write too long of a post.

2. Advanced Paint.NET users?? Who??You? Rightttt... I can't even say I am able to use every functions/effects/tools fully...

3. I asked you to make the glass letters, where are they? You just write more in your reply. Just because you stay within your zone with the 3d letters, doesn't mean everyone is staying still, You think all the glassy I do use the same method?

4. I also help those who wanna push beyond their limits.

5. Another Ash? Not likely.

6. And what do you mean "USED TO"?

(For 5 and 6, When you can beat... just to name a few... Iron man head, Glass and reflections, More than meets the eye, or even the very old Saber tooth, or even just show me 1 ice cube.....then we'll talk.) (You want something truly challenging, then go for it. Show me, show everyone.)

7. Like oma said, try to help people.

8. The differences between you and me? I help other with my knowledge (As long as they are willing to work hard), You feel like elite user with yours. (Along with some others users as well)

9. I've helped more than enough people on this forum to get the "I am disappointed in you" speech. So don't even start (again).

10. You write too long of a post.

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All creations Ash + Paint.NET [ Googlepage | deviantArt | Club PDN | PDN Fan ]

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well Mike go for it you think my abstracts suck why? I'm probably my own worst critique, but I'm not afraid to try new areas even if my first, second, third, fourth attempt in my gallery just reek. Not every picture I enter in my gallery is perfect, but I will say my gallery is very varried, not the sameold sameold. Seldom do two or more pictures carry the same theme. I advance as I perfect one thing I move on to a challenge. Perhaps my life has been longer and I've experienced more and have a broader background to draw on. But one thing I can assure you is the "wow" I get is because and only because not many have explored the range of plugins the way I have and most of you are so afraid of putting it out there and straying from the comfort zone.

maybe mentor was wrong word but I don't think so. case in point. a newbie asked how to draw a bunny. I sent them pm on steps for line drawing. it could have end there. but no I challenge my self to do fur like Ash tiger just because I hadn't tried it before. That picture was excellent in my opinion. so then I tried monkey. yes that one was off. but I practise drawing and next picture of animal (elephant was better)

ciao OMA

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^Yep, it's entirely your fault.

Ash, I said opinion. Each side should be considering the suggestion instead of being offended by it, because that's how a compromise is reached.

Yeah, I also stated my 10 opinions.

But whatever, I don't wanna have to "opinion" you too today.

Like my art said: Don't make me angry! You wouldn't like it......blah blah..

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All creations Ash + Paint.NET [ Googlepage | deviantArt | Club PDN | PDN Fan ]

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Hidden Content:
1. You write too long of a post.
2. Advanced Paint.NET users?? Who??You? Rightttt... I can't even say I am able to use every functions/effects/tools fully...
3. I asked you to make the glass letters, where are they? You just write more in your reply. Just because you stay within your zone with the 3d letters, doesn't mean everyone is staying still, You think all the glassy I do use the same method?
4. I also help those who wanna push beyond their limits.
5. Another Ash? Not likely.
6. And what do you mean "USED TO"?
(For 5 and 6, When you can beat... just to name a few... Iron man head, Glass and reflections, More than meets the eye, or even the very old Saber tooth, or even just show me 1 ice cube.....then we'll talk.) (You want something truly challenging, then go for it. Show me, show everyone.)
7. Like oma said, try to help people.
8. The differences between you and me? I help other with my knowledge (As long as they are willing to work hard), You feel like elite user with yours. (Along with some others users as well)
9. I've helped more than enough people on this forum to get the "I am disappointed in you" speech. So don't even start (again).
10. You write too long of a post.

You. Have got to be kidding me. You call me an elitest? Read your own damn post. I always try to help out when possible, by pointing them to the correct place in a tone much lighter than 50% of the other users who respond, and am always working to help better this forum: even if my own posts are shot down. I didn't say I was some advanced user, but I am sure as hell a lot better than 'blueidbill', who is asking for a Paint.NET for Dummies book, or about the other thousand members of these forums who have written a useless help thread. And I always had the intention of helping them out, whether it was bringing in new members, working to help Rick beta test and troubleshoot Paint.NET, or bring new ideas to the mod staff. The difference between you and me? I am around, and even when it isn't expected of myself I work anyways. I never thought I would be run off, but I am leaving with Rubrica.


Warning: the above post may cause reverse reactions, resulting in a large unnecessary arguement that ultimately will cause the thread to be locked. Read at your own risk.
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You. Have got to be kidding me. You call me an elitest? Read your own damn post. I always try to help out when possible, by pointing them to the correct place in a tone much lighter than 50% of the other users who respond, and am always working to help better this forum: even if my own posts are shot down. I didn't say I was some advanced user, but I am sure as hell a lot better than 'blueidbill', who is asking for a Paint.NET for Dummies book, or about the other thousand members of these forums who have written a useless help thread. And I always had the intention of helping them out, whether it was bringing in new members, working to help Rick beta test and troubleshoot Paint.NET, or bring new ideas to the mod staff. The difference between you and me? I am around, and even when it isn't expected of myself I work anyways. I never thought I would be run off, but I am leaving with Rubrica.

I seem to recall someone said something along the line of we are a better group of artist or something with our own forum and such. And a few more other posts I don't remember exactly, but I won't bother to search them out...But anyways, that's not the main point.

Let me ask you, what do these statements serve besides to piss people off? If you can do better, show us.

"Oma always stuck doing the same old, Ash used to, Advance users need a new Ash, so and so would've been the new Ash"?

Let me answer you again...

oma does a lot of abstracts but she does try her best to do as many different themes as she can.

Ash used to?Need a new Ash? So I'm not good enough for you advanced used anymore?

So and so would've been the new Ash? He was good, but not that good. He likes too much to follow photoshop tuts, that's why in the end he went the PS way....

If you think we need a new Ash, TRY TO BE ONE! Don't just pick out some other's name and piss me off.

(It's like kids saying: My friend is so much better than you....LOL, but whatever.)

As for being elite or not,

I think I've earned other's respect, But do I show it off with every other posts and what not?

I'm not even gonna bother to justify that.

Ask all the members here, all the members on the fan forum, or even all who watched my dA account.

As for the point in helping others,

I think all who come to these forums have benefited from either my knowledge, replies, hints and tips, tuts and PM, even my artwork, INCLUDING yourself. How easily one forgets!!??

On the other hand, Oma, as one of the advance user never forgetting where she come from and how she got to this point, makes my feel all the hard work I put into all of this is worth it.

TBH, it's ungrateful advance users like you, who made me wanting to make tuts less and less.

....You and the likes have made doing all of this not enjoyable anymore.

I don't have to do this you know? I do it because I enjoy making art, inspiring others, open their minds, teaching people.

And because I'm a nice person.

Very well, I promised a new gem tut and eye tut, and I'm a man of my words. But those will the the last public tuts from me for a long while. At least not until I get can this sickening feeling outta me.

Peace out and good luck in whatever you wanna do! Honest!

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All creations Ash + Paint.NET [ Googlepage | deviantArt | Club PDN | PDN Fan ]

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You. Have got to be kidding me. You call me an elitest? Read your own damn post. I always try to help out when possible, by pointing them to the correct place in a tone much lighter than 50% of the other users who respond, and am always working to help better this forum: even if my own posts are shot down. I didn't say I was some advanced user, but I am sure as hell a lot better than 'blueidbill', who is asking for a Paint.NET for Dummies book, or about the other thousand members of these forums who have written a useless help thread. And I always had the intention of helping them out, whether it was bringing in new members, working to help Rick beta test and troubleshoot Paint.NET, or bring new ideas to the mod staff. The difference between you and me? I am around, and even when it isn't expected of myself I work anyways. I never thought I would be run off, but I am leaving with Rubrica.

I seem to recall someone said something along the line of we are a better group of artist or something with our own forum and such. And a few more other posts I don't remember exactly, but I won't bother to search them out...But anyways, that's not the main point.

Let me ask you, what do these statements serve besides to piss people off? If you can do better, show us.

"Oma always stuck doing the same old, Ash used to, Advance users need a new Ash, so and so would've been the new Ash"?

Let me answer you again...

oma does a lot of abstracts but she does try her best to do as many different themes as she can.

Ash used to?Need a new Ash? So I'm not good enough for you advanced used anymore?

So and so would've been the new Ash? He was good, but not that good. He likes too much to follow photoshop tuts, that's why in the end he went the PS way....

If you think we need a new Ash, TRY TO BE ONE! Don't just pick out some other's name and piss me off.

(It's like kids saying: My friend is so much better than you....LOL, but whatever.)

As for being elite or not,

I think I've earned other's respect, But do I show it off with every other posts and what not?

I'm not even gonna bother to justify that.

Ask all the members here, all the members on the fan forum, or even all who watched my dA account.

As for the point in helping others,

I think all who come to these forums have benefited from either my knowledge, replies, hints and tips, tuts and PM, even my artwork, INCLUDING yourself. How easily one forgets!!??

On the other hand, Oma, as one of the advance user never forgetting where she come from and how she got to this point, makes my feel all the hard work I put into all of this is worth it.

TBH, it's ungrateful advance users like you, who made me wanting to make tuts less and less.

....You and the likes have made doing all of this not enjoyable anymore.

I don't have to do this you know? I do it because I enjoy making art, inspiring others, open their minds, teaching people.

And because I'm a nice person.

Very well, I promised a new gem tut and eye tut, and I'm a man of my words. But those will the the last public tuts from me for a long while. At least not until I get can this sickening feeling outta me.

Peace out and good luck in whatever you wanna do! Honest!

Ash, I can still remember myself as a noob following one of your tuts (I wasn't signed up at the time), seeing your sig and paying a little visit to your gallery, this meant seeing more then meets the eye, your sabertooth, angelina jolie and your glassworks, I remember thinking: "I can stop PDN'ing when I can beat that" You became the PDN'er to beat, I wanted to create something better then more then meets the eye and so far I failed, but I don't want to quit, I want to go on and become better. Ash without you I may have left a long time ago. I think that one of the first things a noob does is follow one of your tuts (probably the eye tut) and this means seeing your avatar and sig (and they'll probably go to your gallery too) and think "I want to become better then him, how hard can it be?" After they found out how hard it will be they either quit (like I usually do when something doesn't go as planned) or go on and become part of the PDN community.

I don't write this because I want more of your tuts (well I do want more of your tuts, but I'm not so selfish that I wrote this just because of that), but to tell you what you mean to newbies.

I hope this helps get the sickening feeling out of you.

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History repeats itself, because nobody was paying attention the first time.

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I seem to recall someone said something along the line of we are a better group of artist or something with our own forum and such. And a few more other posts I don't remember exactly, but I won't bother to search them out...But anyways, that's not the main point.

Who would've said those things? I'll give you a hint: one of the immature fourteen year olds who turned Tag Flow into a dreaded nightmare of mine, one that I shot down quickly. Don't put words into my mouth.

Let me ask you, what do these statements serve besides to piss people off? If you can do better, show us.
"Oma always stuck doing the same old, Ash used to, Advance users need a new Ash, so and so would've been the new Ash"?

Great quote. I completely said it just like that. What did you do? Scan through my post and tried to take everything very literally? And about OMA...

Let me answer you again...
oma does a lot of abstracts but she does try her best to do as many different themes as she can.

How come OMA understood the post, and yet you couldn't? I've already talked to her, and she understood the meaning behind it. She wasn't quick to misjudge, as yourself, and was willing to compromise. Yeah, OMA is actually one of the best forum users around, and many of us know that.

Ash used to?Need a new Ash? So I'm not good enough for you advanced used anymore?
So and so would've been the new Ash? He was good, but not that good. He likes too much to follow photoshop tuts, that's why in the end he went the PS way....
If you think we need a new Ash, TRY TO BE ONE! Don't just pick out some other's name and piss me off.
(It's like kids saying: My friend is so much better than you....LOL, but whatever.)

Look at me, I take everything literally! Seriously, reread the post. I said we needed somebody with as much excellence as Ash. Lately you haven't been around as much, and nobody blames you for it. And it is ignorant to think that nobody can be as good as you. When -Expired- was around here, there was an influx of great artwork trying to mimic his style, as there already has been with you. You want better art? Make it. I can't be one, and that is not what I am here for anymore. I am here to help test and provide feedback about Paint.NET, from alpha to finish. As well as provide plugin devs help when they ask for it.

As for being elite or not,
I think I've earned other's respect, But do I show it off with every other posts and what not?
I'm not even gonna bother to justify that.
Ask all the members here, all the members on the fan forum, or even all who watched my dA account.

:lol: That is the thing, you think you have. You let it get to your head, and assume support even if it wasn't there. You don't need to justify that you are an elitest hot head, because you just did.

As for the point in helping others,
I think all who come to these forums have benefited from either my knowledge, replies, hints and tips, tuts and PM, even my artwork, INCLUDING yourself. How easily one forgets!!??

Yeah, I recall saying "I HATE ASH!1!!!!11 HE NEVER HELPS ME NEVER!" The thing is, almost 90% of the active members on these forums could say the same thing. I guess I forget from time to time that it is the Paint.NET Community and ASH, not just the Paint.NET Community. You are soooo great, ASH. I owe a huge debt to you just like the rest of us. :roll:

On the other hand, Oma, as one of the advance user never forgetting where she come from and how she got to this point, makes my feel all the hard work I put into all of this is worth it.

Again, I know.

TBH, it's ungrateful advance users like you, who made me wanting to make tuts less and less.
....You and the likes have made doing all of this not enjoyable anymore.

Where did I call myself ungrateful for what you have done? For a Paint.NET forum - where the more users the better - you really seem to want to get rid of them, huh? What a moderator.

I don't have to do this you know? I do it because I enjoy making art, inspiring others, open their minds, teaching people.

I don't have to do this you know? I do it because I enjoy helping Rick, working towards having a better community, making friends, and helping out new users. And yet I won't ever assume myself a teacher, nor a mentor. But another user who is just trying to help.

And because I'm a nice person.
Very well, I promised a new gem tut and eye tut, and I'm a man of my words. But those will the the last public tuts from me for a long while. At least not until I get can this sickening feeling outta me.

Thank you for the tutorials, they will be appreciated. Hope you feel better.

Peace out and good luck in whatever you wanna do! Honest!

You to.


Warning: the above post may cause reverse reactions, resulting in a large unnecessary arguement that ultimately will cause the thread to be locked. Read at your own risk.
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