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You're surprised at the content of the theory? In what / which way?
For example...
There is a formula to make learning all the major scales easier, it may seem a little abstract at first but any music theory is a very abstract thing until you put it into practice on an instrument of some sort.

(T = tone ST = semitone, one T is equal to 2 ST) ...

To play a major scale you take a note & play:

T, T, ST, T, T, T, ST.

It seemed very clinical for an art. I understand why it's there, and essentially the concept of it, but I was surprised at first that it did exist at all.

I prefer to listen than play, and it has been many years since I was taught music, but even then it was not to this level; we were given sheet music and told to play, or told to create something of our own imagination along the lines of some theme. Nothing like this. Perhaps once, to think of it, but once in three years of compulsory music is not much. Having said that, I had heard of some of this being taught at GCSE where a more in-depth understanding of playing was clearly required.

I think that part of the reason that people learning music theory that don't get it or like it to begin with is because musicians rarely take well to regimented things like theory, classical musicians get it as part of their training, but a lot of the people that I've met find music theory does their heads in, even if they're good at maths.

dA

Son, someday you will make a girl happy for a short period of time. Then she'll leave you & be with men that are ten times

better than you can imagine. These men are called musicians. :D

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...but a lot of the people that I've met find music theory does their heads in, even if they're good at maths.
I know a few people who take a keen interest in playing music, some in bands of their own, but either do not take a music based subject and/or kick theory when playing for their own objectives.
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...but a lot of the people that I've met find music theory does their heads in, even if they're good at maths.
I know a few people who take a keen interest in playing music, some in bands of their own, but either do not take a music based subject and/or kick theory when playing for their own objectives.

Music theory makes my head hurt. Very few things can make my head hurt. But music theory baffles me to no end.

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I know a few people who take a keen interest in playing music, some in bands of their own, but either do not take a music based subject and/or kick theory when playing for their own objectives.

If all they want to do is start an "intense metalcore screamo" band, which will probably last 18 months due to over the top emotions being brought into things & subsequently decide that music sucks cos they can't do it, then they can shun theory as much as they want as it (in the long term) won't be particularly beneficial to them. If they actually want to make a career out of playing music (or at least say they do), then you have my full permission to batter some sense into them (read: tell them to go to their theory lessons). Even if they fall into the first category but say that they'll turn music into their livelihood, tell them to go cos if they're saying it then it must be true ;)

I have a slightly jaded view on some subjects & I may have stereotyped some parts of my above post some of it is based on personal expeirence (the band breaking up thing, it wasn't my band, but it was someone in my group at college last year, his band broke up cos they'd had enough of him basically even though he didn't say that one of his (ex) band mates did, oh & they only lasted for about 6 months).

Music theory makes my head hurt. Very few things can make my head hurt. But music theory baffles me to no end.

:shock:

Wow, I'm surprised, C# / C++ (general program languages) make my head hurt, mostly cos of the maths involved yet music theory came to me like a duck to water, I loved it, still do.

dA

Son, someday you will make a girl happy for a short period of time. Then she'll leave you & be with men that are ten times

better than you can imagine. These men are called musicians. :D

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I'm going to agree with pyro here... This went above my head, circled around it three times, and did a sky dive into my skull and I still missed it.

Do you play music of any sort? (no funny business here boy, I mean play music as in piano or dulcimer or something, not "sure, I'll just put a CD on"). I seem to remember that Pyro plays trumpet, but I don't recall you mentioning playing an instrument.

dA

Son, someday you will make a girl happy for a short period of time. Then she'll leave you & be with men that are ten times

better than you can imagine. These men are called musicians. :D

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If all they want to do is start an "intense metalcore screamo" band
They listen to it, but do not play it. Which to some was odd to hear.
If they actually want to make a career out of playing music (or at least say they do)' date=' then you have my full permission to batter some sense into them (read: tell them to go to their theory lessons).[/quote']Fine by me. One of them I've been needing an excuse to inflict physical harm upon him.
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If all they want to do is start an "intense metalcore screamo" band
They listen to it, but do not play it. Which to some was odd to hear.

I don't listen to the stuff that makes no sense to me (anything that appear to sound like noise with someone destroying their vocal chords over it), but I do listen to stuff like Dream Theater, The Liquid Tension Experiment & Rage Against The Machine, which, whilst not quite the "emotional expression" that their "music" (I preffer a long list of swear words to describe that kind of music but you've probably guessed that by now) may be it is kind of similar & yet I play in a couple of jazz bands...

If they actually want to make a career out of playing music (or at least say they do), then you have my full permission to batter some sense into them (read: tell them to go to their theory lessons).
Fine by me. One of them I've been needing an excuse to inflict physical harm upon him.

:lol:

I can see it now "*thwak* GO *thwak* TO *thwak* YOUR * thwak* THEORY *thwak* LESSONS" :D It makes me chuckle :D

dA

Son, someday you will make a girl happy for a short period of time. Then she'll leave you & be with men that are ten times

better than you can imagine. These men are called musicians. :D

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I'm going to agree with pyro here... This went above my head, circled around it three times, and did a sky dive into my skull and I still missed it.

Do you play music of any sort? (no funny business here boy, I mean play music as in piano or dulcimer or something, not "sure, I'll just put a CD on"). I seem to remember that Pyro plays trumpet, but I don't recall you mentioning playing an instrument.

I used to play baritone (mini-tuba).

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former"

[ dA Paint.NET Chat :: Yata on dA ]

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Music is math.

Think about it: Different frequency ratios have different effects on emotion and mood (harmony). Different subdivisions of time have different effects on stress and aggravation levels (tempo). Multiplicative, additive, and exponential increases and decreases in the volume of the sound can cause an increase in the effects of the other two (dynamics). All of these mathematical procedures must be done instantly, on-the-fly, and without the aid of a calculator or computer.

Music is chemistry. Different compositions of metals and woods produce different sound qualities in instruments (timbre). It must be exact, or the sound will be flat and undesirable.

Music is engineering. The dimensions and scale of individual parts of the instrument make the difference between no sound, good sound, and noise. At the same time, they must be lightweight and easy to play. Valved instruments have several feet of tubing that must be activated precisely with minimal input from the user.

Music is visual art. The sheet music can be beautiful; the player has an element of elegance as he or she plays; the marching band is a visually stimulating thing.

And music is social. "Band geeks" can recognize one another (sometimes even from across a room); music lovers swap stories of their favorites.

Music is one of the most powerful forces in our world.

 

The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
Amy: But how did it end up in there?
The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.
River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him.

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I refuse to call music math. If music was math, I would suck at it and not understand it, and overall hate it.

I have a very bad relationship with math.

But music is math. But music is not just math. Music is the entire human experience, all rolled up into one convenient little package.

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I used to play baritone (mini-tuba).

As I said music theory makes more sense if you have something to apply it on, I'm assuming that you've given up playing & got rid of your baritone (BTW the picture in my head was a rather amusing one for some reason).

Music is math.

Think about it: Different frequency ratios have different effects on emotion and mood (harmony). Different subdivisions of time have different effects on stress and aggravation levels (tempo). Multiplicative, additive, and exponential increases and decreases in the volume of the sound can cause an increase in the effects of the other two (dynamics). All of these mathematical procedures must be done instantly, on-the-fly, and without the aid of a calculator or computer.

Music is chemistry. Different compositions of metals and woods produce different sound qualities in instruments (timbre). It must be exact, or the sound will be flat and undesirable.

Music is engineering. The dimensions and scale of individual parts of the instrument make the difference between no sound, good sound, and noise. At the same time, they must be lightweight and easy to play. Valved instruments have several feet of tubing that must be activated precisely with minimal input from the user.

Music is visual art. The sheet music can be beautiful; the player has an element of elegance as he or she plays; the marching band is a visually stimulating thing.

And music is social. "Band geeks" can recognize one another (sometimes even from across a room); music lovers swap stories of their favorites.

Music is one of the most powerful forces in our world.

That is all true, yet scientists can't work out the formula that would create the "ultimate" pop song, in fact, they can't even work out what it is that people love about music.

In reply to the visual side of things, I went to a workshop with a sax / clarinet player called Gilad Atzmon. One of the things he said was that music is heard, he can read music, but not very well & he didn't use sheet music during the workshop. For me, sheet music should be used for remembrance purposes (in the same way we've written down stories), I've always had more fun when I'm not using sheet music, with a music stand it's like there's a barrier between you & the audience & you're always having to look at a piece of music so as you know what to play rather than look out at the people you're playing for to see how they're responding.

dA

Son, someday you will make a girl happy for a short period of time. Then she'll leave you & be with men that are ten times

better than you can imagine. These men are called musicians. :D

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I didn't stop playing it by choice. I played it in Florida for one or two years, then moved to Ohio and found my school has these wacky baritones and tubas that have their buttons upside down and you have to stretch your arm around it to play it.

So essentially, I would have to play it backwards. So I just gave it up for a computer class.

I still have my mouth piece, but since I'm home schooled now, I couldn't play one anyway.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former"

[ dA Paint.NET Chat :: Yata on dA ]

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One more addition to d.a's post:

Music is psychological. For example, it is recommended by a doctor for people with Alzheimer's to listen to music to keep track of time better. Also, listening to a certain genre of music can change your mood (i.e., you feel like hitting someone when listening to "Let the Bodies Hit the Floor"). It is seen as a mental illness or disorder when a person dislikes all music, when they find anything from classical to metal as repetitive or annoying. There are entire books about the effect that music has on the human brain, written by some of the most eminent scientists around.

"The greatest thing about the Internet is that you can write anything you want and give it a false source." ~Ezra Pound

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One more addition to d.a's post:

Music is psychological. For example, it is recommended by a doctor for people with Alzheimer's to listen to music to keep track of time better. Also, listening to a certain genre of music can change your mood (i.e., you feel like hitting someone when listening to "Let the Bodies Hit the Floor"). It is seen as a mental illness or disorder when a person dislikes all music, when they find anything from classical to metal as repetitive or annoying. There are entire books about the effect that music has on the human brain, written by some of the most eminent scientists around.

T'is true, people make a lot of money as Music Therapists, they help people with their problems using music.

@ all the debate about music & maths.

It is maths, trust me it is, Pythagoras invented / discovered the Harmonic Sequence which is the basis of western music theory. There's maths all over music, whether it's to do with the number of semitones in an octave (12) or to do with time signatures. Having said that, if it were all mathematic it would have been a matter of time before someone wrote a perfectly correct song based on maths, such a song would sound horrible as there would be no dissonance which is required if consonance is going to sound nice. There was a composer named Schoenberg who numbered the notes in the octave & then randomised the order of them to create his music, I haven't heard any of it myself, but I know people who have & they say it's not easy to listen to.

dA

Son, someday you will make a girl happy for a short period of time. Then she'll leave you & be with men that are ten times

better than you can imagine. These men are called musicians. :D

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Changing the subject ever so slightly, I made an interpretation of the lyrics in this song:

Name of me

the whole why one of me

the hey no mo wine

cause Jeshua won't be there

ride my Panera

mane minayamai

Wrong placebo, see?

A seen cansanai!

I see panzai... zeeenn!

---

name of me

the whole sier sen seni

hey no mo, waah!

cause Sania won't be there

ride my Panera

mane minayamai

Wrong placebo, see?

A seen candanai!

I can't find my Oman

---

Josie to moo ya!

You nada he go trim

Do good Ty young

Say your Jar Jar he near!

Ditch on John, he's gunna ditch you near!

In a hega chunchy lie, like Michal dyke on there!

Da him pow!

He doesn't know a thing!

In a fung poo Jew,

leggy

let me saw here

Chunky Dow so mow on the Hitchy pone air.

Dodo your kai shin, push your child of a chair!

A N***** seen N*****, jump up on the sin seal.

A doce ching near. Procrast[inate] and sing here!

And a dice of Ching Cheer, as she holds on.

Thing tear!

He's a N*****, Jean Diff, one of ten there.

In a he go bye bye, and Care Bear he go bye!

He go bye bye, and dada hich a ride!

He go bye bye, and dada hich it high!

Ant is itchy

Bye Bye!

Measure how she why

He good network!

For the love of Quai

Hue pow Joe

How see eat is a pie

No see now you mountain, bite on someone you Asian from a China Jose

Chichi gunna bite you

Assume me has Zoo

A Who saw me he G

Jega, you fool!

Sending he To-How

Over someone being cool!

In a He Man, how?

In a no suit, too!

He needs a bath

Or you nada seen cool!

---

name of me

the hole sum sins in me

the hey no mo while the sauna want me there

ride my Panera

mane minayamai

Wrong placebo, see?

A seen cansanai!

I can't find my Oman!

I want to make a Youtube video of it complete with pictures, but I don't have the right software (Windows Movie Maker isn't installed, and the installer doesn't work).

"The greatest thing about the Internet is that you can write anything you want and give it a false source." ~Ezra Pound

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Even gamma/light/radio waves? (Pertaining to mass)

You could have just typed "EM waves" and saved yourself a lot of hassle with all those slashes ;)

And yes, EM waves are physical. Everything is physical. Even thoughts, feelings, emotions, anything mental, as those are just impulses of electrons going through your brain.

(No, we're not bringing in the supernatural - souls, supreme consciousness, whatever - into this discussion. None of that has been proven or disproved)

Sidenote: why is 'proven' a word, but not 'disproven?' Weird...

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Even gamma/light/radio waves? (Pertaining to mass)

You could have just typed "EM waves" and saved yourself a lot of hassle with all those slashes ;)

And yes, EM waves are physical. Everything is physical. Even thoughts, feelings, emotions, anything mental, as those are just impulses of electrons going through your brain.

(No, we're not bringing in the supernatural - souls, supreme consciousness, whatever - into this discussion. None of that has been proven or disproved)

Sidenote: why is 'proven' a word, but not 'disproven?' Weird...

Same reason Firefox says my religion and some things related to it aren't.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former"

[ dA Paint.NET Chat :: Yata on dA ]

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