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midora

High DPI issues

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Tested on Lenovo Yoga 2 pro 13.3", 3200 x 1800, 278dpi.

 

Looks great, seems there are just some minor issues.

 

Some icons are too small:

- the arrow in the reset buttons of effects

- the submenu arrows in the main menu

- the icon in from of Open Recent->Clear the list

- all icons in the status bar

 

In the Colors window the 'Secondary' color rectangle has no border at the right side (but on left, top and bottom). The arrows at the bottom of the color sliders are much too small (same in IndirectUi.Int32ColorWheel properties).

 

Most mouse pointer shapes are too small

 

The down arrow of comboboxes is too small

 

The vertical distance between menu entries is too small (IMHO)

 

Maybe a zoom value of 6400% would be fine ;-)

 

 

 

 

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I have read about issues such as this when using ultra high resolution screens. The idea behind these screens is so you can see more all at once , which is handy on small 13.3" sceens. The trouble is that the adjustable scaling technology used in Windows works OK on the desktop so you can adjust the size of some icons and text but unfortunately does not work as well in some programs, ironically graphics ones like PS or PDN. I read a review of Dell`s latest XPS15 which has an even higher res than the MacBook Pro Retina which they call a QHD screen and it has this problem.

 

Looking at the resolution of your screen I would guess that this maybe the problem. From what I have read it is Windows at fault here and not PDN. You could try lowering the resolution when using PDN and see if that helps. I had a full HD screen (1920x1080) on my last laptop and everything was much smaller but not too small to make things difficult. It was ideal in fact because I could see all of my distort/render list of plugins without having to scroll down. Maybe you could try this and see how things go.

 

Other than that I can`t think what else to suggest. Hope this is of some help anyway.

 

 

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Other than that I can`t think what else to suggest. Hope this is of some help anyway.

 

Thanks Goonfella, but I'm a Techy. I know the OS and the APIs. Windows scales old applications but to get the best look applications have to declare them self as high dpi aware in a manifest and do the right scaling.

 

Paint.NET is High DPI aware. It did the right scaling already in the 3 series.

It's just the case that Windows before 8.1 was not prepared for High DPI and already now there are issues.

 

Still hoping that Paint will be per-monitor dpi aware in the future so that it is easy to work in a mixed environment.

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So you are saying that if someone was having issues in, for example Win7,   then upgraded to 8.1, the issues would be solved because 8.1+ was designed to work with high DPI`s ?

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So you are saying that if someone was having issues in, for example Win7,   then upgraded to 8.1, the issues would be solved because 8.1+ was designed to work with high DPI`s ?

 

No it does not solve all issues and this will never be the case. There are still applications which do not scale quite good all their UI elements. Sometimes text is so tiny that it is hard to read.

 

I just red that .NET framework 4.5.2 (May 2014 edition) would solve the issue with the small arrows in toolstrip menus.

So I checked in Settings/Diagnostics and it tells

  Windows 8.1 (6.3.9600.0), .Net Runtime 4.0.30319.34209

I'm wondering because the download page tells minimum requirement is .NET 4.5.

Is there a difference between Runtime and framework?

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Thanks for the explanation Midora. Unfortunately I am not much of a Techy so I can`t answer your question ( if it was directed at me - which I doubt but you never know). Maybe someone else can?

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.net framework is different from .net runtime. It's the .net framework that you install, which makes sure it's corresponding runtime is installed. So, 'requirements' lists for software installs list the .net framework versions.  And usually when just ".net" is said casually, it's referring to the framework. 

 

you can check if you have .net framework 4.5 or 4.5.1 or 4.5.2 (I would imagine, I havent checked that version yet) by looking in appwiz.cpl under "microsoft .net framework"

 

If paint.net requires framework 4.5, then having 4.5.2 would not interfere with it. So it's worth installing.  However, I'm not sure whether A) 4.5.2 would even get used by paint.net, and B) whether anything microsoft claimed it fixed would manifest as fixed in paint.net (it would depend on many details of paint.net engineering)

 

Making programs be DPI aware is potentially one of the most excruciating things for a programmer to do, depending on his personal nature. One thing that makes it easier is if you make your UI look like a fisher-price videogame toy. That trick isnt available to programs made for serious grown-ups getting work done, like paint.net.  So... try to have some patience :)

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.you can check if you have .net framework 4.5 or 4.5.1 or 4.5.2 (I would imagine, I havent checked that version yet) by looking in appwiz.cpl under "microsoft .net framework"

 

I updated to 4.5.2 and verified in the registry HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\NET Framework Setup\NDP\v4\Full

that release tells 379893.

 

If paint.net requires framework 4.5, then having 4.5.2 would not interfere with it. So it's worth installing.  However, I'm not sure whether A) 4.5.2 would even get used by paint.net, and B) whether anything microsoft claimed it fixed would manifest as fixed in paint.net (it would depend on many details of paint.net engineering)

 

I didn't expect that just installing 4.5.2 will fix the arrow issue and it did not. I know that Paint.NET derives its own ToolStripRenderer but typically nobody overrides OnRenderArrow. The hint to 4.5.2 was just a reminder.

 

 

Making programs be DPI aware is potentially one of the most excruciating things for a programmer to do, depending on his personal nature.

 

I know most are telling let's wait that the customers are getting such a devices. But if you have it in mind during coding then it really does not take a lot of time to adapt the code.

 

I'm a little bit disappointed in Microsoft regarding high dpi. Even the Display dialog in 8.1 does not render correct in high dpi.

And 250% (they call it Extra Extra Large) is the standard maximum. But this is just 240 dpi.

 

 

 So... try to have some patience :)

 

I'm patient (somehow ;-). But people have to tell their needs to developers. And we can provide hints if we are able to do. Like the remark to 4.5.2. Or the code I published in developer central to fix the arrow and checkmark issue.

 

At the end Rick has his own priority list and that's fine. I'm sure he will look for it (maybe not tomorrow ;-)

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Hi.

I read all the discussion. I have not understood, however, if the problem has been solved or not.

I have a lenovo yoga pro 2 by 13 inches. On PAINT.NET is all small (icons, menu bar, ect).

Can you help me?

Thanks

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Just in the moment I'm using the same type of laptop. In general paint.net 4.0.6 works fine here with a screen scaling of 250%

Could you go to the paint.net settings (the gear in the top right corner) and post the content of the 'Diagnostic' tab?

Also a screenshot of the whole screen may provide infos.

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See attachment (screenshots)

 

diagnostic tab

 

Application    paint.net 4.0.5 (Final 4.5.5454.39504)
Build Date    domenica 7 dicembre 2014
    
Accelerazione hardware di rendering (GPU)    True
Animazioni    True
DPI    240,00 (2,50x scale)
Lingua    it-IT
    
OS    Windows 8.1 (6.3.9600.0)
.NET Runtime    4.0.30319.34014
Physical Memory    8.104 MB
    
CPU    Intel® Core i7-4510U CPU @ 2.00GHz
    Architecture    x64 (64-bit)
    Process Mode    64-bit
    Speed    ~2594 MHz
    Cores / Threads    4
    Features    DEP, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4_1, SSE4_2, XSAVE
    
Video Card    Intel® HD Graphics Family
    Dedicated Video RAM    0 MB
    Dedicated System RAM    0 MB
    Shared System RAM    1.792 MB
    Vendor ID    0x8086
    Device ID    0x0A16
    Subsystem ID    0x397817AA
    Revision    11
    LUID    0x00009E98
    Flags    None
    Outputs    1
    
Video Card    Microsoft Basic Render Driver
    Dedicated Video RAM    0 MB
    Dedicated System RAM    0 MB
    Shared System RAM    256 MB
    Vendor ID    0x1414
    Device ID    0x008C
    Subsystem ID    0x00000000
    Revision    0
    LUID    0x0000A081
    Flags    Software
    Outputs    0

post-89828-0-69671000-1438733205_thumb.j

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I would say that everything looks ok.

The only thing you have to respect is that an image on the paint.net canvas will look smaller than on a standard 96dpi pc in 100% zoom.

The reason is that the 100% mode still maps one pixel of the image to one pixel of the screen.

So to get the same image size on the canvas you have to set the the paint.net zoom to 240%.

To do this click on percentage value in the status bar at the bottom and enter 240 instead of 100.

(240 is 96 * 2.5).

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So I have to change the percentage of zoom setting 240% in the bar at the bottom right of PAINT.NET. Did I get it right?

Does not concern this post, but I have a doubt.
The same type of problem is also present for Word, Excel, Power Point, etc?
I have not yet installed Microsoft office. I was wondering if there may be problems with microsoft office as on PAINT.NET

 

Thanks a lot

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If the screenshot shows the complete screen (as I asked for) and not just the paint.net window in a much larger screen area then everything is fine.

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I'm not using MS office but I'm pretty sure that if paint.net has the right size for menus then it will be the same for office because both applications are highdpi-aware.

 

The 100% zoom in paint.net may be different because paint.net is a pixel editor. Typically I'm offering a switch in my tools and applications to define whether 100% zoom will respect scaling or not (i.e. in the 'Spirit Level' plugin). But I would not expect that Rick will add such a switch to paint.net just for the highdpi users. It would be useful because the 1:1 mapping makes no sense if you are no longer able to see the individual pixels.

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Hi.


I read all the discussion. I have not understood, however, if the problem has been solved or not.


I have a lenovo yoga pro 2 by 13 inches (monitor high dpi). On PAINT.NET is all small (icons, menu bar, ect).


(Paint.net versione 4.0.6)


Can you help me?


Thanks


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