Lasso a pool, blending, tree-trimming and placement etc.

[minni]

Hi, since this forum excludes big pics, I needed to use Tinypic to demo this.

 

I cranked out this mud-hole:

http://oi57.tinypic.com/2q15emg.jpg

 

from the combo of these two:

(1) Mudpot: http://oi62.tinypic.com/2iaahkz.jpg

(2) Grass-pool: http://oi62.tinypic.com/23ualhd.jpg

 

As you can see, Lassowing the pool for deletion didn't turn out too perfect.

I'd also wanted "continuum" to blend rounded edge of mudpot with the bank.

So I tried using Gaussian, but (as you see) it turned out blurry & ill-defined.

The Grassy Bank should have remained as is - rather than blurry.

 

I also clicked "Soften" and adjusted Slider for Warmth.

And so on...

 

I'm wanting to place the attached pine trees at either side of the pool.

As well as double the size of the surrounding grassy-bank (not sure how).

 

Then connect a crossbar (or wire) from left tree to right-tree.

Then string-up shining lights on the crossbar/wire to flash on the hole.

 

Also - I want to leave it as a daylight pic. even if shining lights are illogical by day.

Perhaps it should be a dimmer daylight effect with Strung lights flashing on the hole?

 

Feedback appreciated.

I.E. what steps would pro's take to achieve my goals?

Thanks

Edited March 6, 2014 by minni

[Pixey]

Hi Minni - WoW!  That's quite a lot to ask right off .  Anyway, here is a suggestion to help in the first part of your question.  This is what I ended up with trying to get the water and the mud to blend together better.

 

 

This is how I did it.

 

1.  Import your water image.

 

2.  With your eraser set to a colour like the water’s edge, at a low opacity, erase away the water you don’t want.

 

3. Import the mud layer and position it over the water area, change the blending mode to Multiply, so that you can see what you are doing.  Then erase away the area you don’t need, just as above.

 

4.  Duplicate the first water image and move it above the mud layer.

 

5.  Change the mud layer back to normal.

 

I hope this helps in the first instance .

Edited March 6, 2014 by Pixey

[minni]

Wow, thanks... I needed to send you a PM msg by way of explanation, but not sure it got thru, since no "Sent Msg" displayed.

[Pixey]

Hi Minni - yes, I did receive your PM, thank you.  I'm afraid what you are trying to achieve is far beyond my capability.  It takes years of doing the 'tutorials' to learn how to do these things.  To begin with, if you want to 'double the size of the grassy bank', without losing clarity in the picture, plus to incorporate the trees you've attached, it may be better to look first for another picture to begin the project - say from further away, so that the trees will fit better into the area.

 

Hope this makes sense and sorry I couldn't be of more help .  Obviously this project will have to be done in 'stages' and getting the first picture, with the mud incorporated, is prime.  Meanwhile, here is a tutorial which may be of interest:

 

http://forums.getpaint.net/index.php?/topic/19517-beginner-image-merging-image-heavy/

 

Good luck Minni

[minni]

I see. The thing is, as per my O.P., I really just would like step by step tips on how to achieve:

a well defined Mud-Pool (i.e. "mud" vs. muddy-water...

it should have the well-defined mud depicted in the above Mud-Pot image

...and the Mud-Pool should be inside well-defined grassy bank as shown in above Grassy-Pool image.

 

If anything - the grass should look even somewhat prettier than the  grass-bank shown in my pic.

Because it should look a bit like John Doe or Jane Shmoe's back yard (since that's exactly what my aim is).

 

Once that's achieved, I can then take it further and ask how to Expand the grass, and place the trees & strung-lights.

I can't understand why/how that takes years to learn??

 

As for the Gradient tutorial, I'm not quite sure how the 2 pics were merged if neither of them was transparent.

Unless the Gradient forces the uppermost layer to become [at least partially] transparent?

It's interestingly coincidental that I had recently used the Gradient feature to achieve a similar effect on a "sketched" version of aforesaid pool. In my case, I used a reddish color for the gradient.

Edited March 10, 2014 by minni

[Ego Eram Reputo]

...

I can't understand why/how that takes years to learn??

...

 

For the same reason that you're finding.  It's a LOT harder than it looks.

 

Anyone can chew up a photo - it takes real skill to make the results believable.

[minni]

For the same reason that you're finding.  It's a LOT harder than it looks.

 

Anyone can chew up a photo - it takes real skill to make the results believable.

 

OK, I see. So how about if I back up, and rephrase my request as follows:

 

Can you please show me what steps to take to achieve the above without perfection?

Just semi-realistic - as long as your average non-perfectionist Joe "gets it"

 

To give an analogy, I jot down a note in my not-so-perfect writing, and hand it to Joe.

So he "gets it" because it is legible.

 

So consider that my revised request.

 

Alternatively, can someone please direct me to a forum where there are less-perfectionist experts willing to guide someone aiming for not-such-perfection, as long as the message gets thru? Even if that goes against the grain of artists?

 

Please understand, this isn't a frivolous request.

[minni]

Moderator, I'm confused. Is my type of question outside the parameters of this forum?

 

since the below-linked Q has not yet been resolved, can you please advise me how to word my below question so that I can get to learn how to combine the pics of:

(1) mudpot ... (2) grassy bank

 

Without changing the appearance of either (1) ....nor changing (2)

 

What I do want is this:

....only the edge of mudpot should softly blend with the edge of grassy bank

 

Believe me, I tried finding strategies via YouTube and search engines, but was not sure which key words to search for.

 

once the below Q is answered, I can then proceed to the grass-expanding issue.

And beyond.

One step at a time.

 

http://forums.getpaint.net/index.php?/topic/28023-lasso-a-pool-blending-tree-trimming-and-placement-etc/#entry406147

 

[Rick Brewster]

Why does this have "attention moderator" ? Why does a moderator need to answer this? Have you not read the rules?

[david.atwell]

You do realize that it's only been four days since your first post, and that people have been trying to help you every day since, right?  You also realize that we all have real lives that aren't this forum and must attend to those, right?  We want to help you.  We are helping you.  But if you're going to be impatient, it becomes difficult to help you.  Please be patient.

 

I'm going to merge this thread with your other thread.

[Cc4FuzzyHuggles]

Hello Minni.
I'm not sure what this project of yours is for, but since I love image manipulations, this looks like it could be fun. To be honest, I'm not sure how much I can help, but if you give me some time I will see what I can do about merging the two images, then if you like what I come up with, I can attempt to tell you how I did it.

However, I am busy tonight and tomorrow so I don't know when I will be able to work on it.

In the mean time, here are some tips for trying to blend images together....
 
– First, I would suggest checking out more tutorials about blending images.
Here is one that I love! It's the one that got me started on image blending. 
http://forums.getpaint.net/index.php?/topic/12184-fading-blending-gradient-tool-on-a-camaro-picture/

– You can also check youtube to see if it has some image blending tutorials. (Sorry, I don't have links on hand, you'll have to go searching for the vids yourself.)

– I normally always use the gradient blending method to blend edges, but some of these plugins can help too: liquify tool, smudge tool, basic antialias, feather, old feather, and AAs assist.
All of which can be found in the plugin index : http://forums.getpaint.net/index.php?/topic/15260-plugin-index/
I don't have time right now to go into detail on how they help, but if you play around with them you may find a way to have them be useful.

– Also, working on the coloration of the different images can often help them "match" better, so they look more natural together.

– You may even want to try paint.net 4.0 as it's tools have pressure sensitivity. With a pressure sensitive eraser, you might be able to get some nice faded edges. (I'm not positive on that, as I have paint.net 3 in use right now. You can test 4.0 and find out though.)

 

 

Ok, that's all I can think of to suggest to you at the moment. I hope something helps.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Cc4FuzzyHuggles

[Ego Eram Reputo]

My quick take on the mud hole.

 

1. Open the water image

 

2. Import the mud image as a new layer.

 

3. Press F4 and lower the opacity of the mud layer to around 50% (so you can see through it for the next step).

 

4. Using a large eraser, remove the edges of the mud which goes past the edge of the land.

 

5. Run TR's EFX (Edge Fader Extreme) on the mud layer to soften the edge (i.e. blend it).

 

6. Press F4.  Set Opacity to 210 and the blend mode to Glow.

 

7. Flatten & save.

 

[Cc4FuzzyHuggles]

Ok, I attempted to merge the images. I'm not sure if I produced what you wanted, but the challenge was fun.

I also must say, I think EER did things in a MUCH simpler manner using that fade plugin that he suggested. And both his and Pixey's pictures look quite nice.

 

I on the other hand, I tend to always make things complicated, haha.
I still personally like the gradient blending method best for “blending” images, and I'm a layers fanatic. So, I used and did a whole lot of gradient blending, lots of layers, lots of clone tool, and lots of redundant and tedious little actions. I did slip in some of EER's suggested plugin a few times too. Overall, I know some parts could have been done better, but it is what it is.

 

After my complicated way of going about doing things, I managed to come up with this :

 

And, I tried to do a colored mud version of the image too, as I do think colors make a difference.

 

 

I know you want explanations on "how to" but, if this is not what you want, then there's no point in explaining it.

However, if my method doesn't scare you, and it is what you want, then I will see what I can do about showing/explaining it to you better and in further details.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Cc4FuzzyHuggles

[david.atwell]

Cc4 - that's really good!  The blur levels don't match, though; maybe lens-blur the mud very lightly, or sharpen the grass a bit.  Nice work!

[Cc4FuzzyHuggles]

Thanks david!

 

And yes, about the blur, I agree. The grassy picture I feel has a nice soft look to it, which is why I at first did actually apply a very minor soft glow to the colored mud. I liked how the mud's color was a better color, but I didn't think the blur was the right blur. And I felt it lowered the quality of the image a little when compared to the gray mud, (at least to my eyes it did) so I thought the OP might not want that.

 

Maybe I'm wrong and it's fine? It's the OP's choice in the end though.

Here is the slightly softened mud :

 

The coloring/blurring is something to expiramnt with, but it was a fun picture to do.

[david.atwell]

That looks a lot nicer.  Still not quite exact, but really close.

[minni]

Rick, David & everyone, speak of delays, my own delay was a whopper due to a horrible prolonged flu +cough (still not over it).

Please bear with me as I'm about to read over the above responses.

 

And thanks to everyone for all your time.

 

I apologize if I seemed impatient - it was more like I was trying to figure out how best to convey what I was attempting to achieve.

 

For future reference, how long a time period should pass before "bumping" one's post (or whatever?

 

P.S. Rick, thank you so much for your wonderful program. I've already experimented with several, including Pixlr. and found yours practically neck & neck with Pixlr (yet even easier in some respects. For example, the nodes you provide within straightLines for curvy lines, is ingenuous. The flexible way people can position text is great too. There is something I've found convenient via Pixlr, though, and that's the way you can quickly maneuver your image by "gauging" its positionng on the mini-canvases at the right, to position it just where you want it. That's convenient when you have a small 15" screen like mine, or smaller.

Edited March 23, 2014 by minni

[Pixey]

You are very welcome and I'm sure someone, more knowledgeable than I, will answer the 'bump' question .

[minni]

OK, now, down to business.

Firstly, Pixey, no problem!

Fuzzy Huggles your pics are beautiful and must have been lots of work!

Is there a reason they're cut off at the right?

 

 I see I must stick to one step at a time, I don't want to overkill  immediately with the entire idea.

 

So... as to the color, realistically speaking, genuinely PULLing (drawing) mud would either match:

 

(1) the PULLing (quicksand-type) mudpots at the Salton Sea (searchable via Google & Youtube)

for example: https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1024&bih=614&q=salton+sea+mud+pots&oq=salton+sea+mud+pots&gs_l=img.3..0l2j0i24.1990.6493.0.6690.19.12.0.7.7.0.168.1446.1j11.12.0....0...1ac.1.37.img..1.18.1361.agMGgVjdFIE

 

OR:

(2) perhaps this @Dead Sea: http://blog.newscom.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/upiphotos993242-JER2010021315_.jpg

 

Now, a followup question to EER:

 

Is Edge Fader Extreme the edgefader.zip file found here?

http://forums.getpaint.net/index.php?/topic/26479-trs-edge-fader-extreme-v-505-dec-262013-pm/

 

...which I assume automatically should load into my Downloads folder?

Then what to do with the zip file once it's in Downloads folder?

How do I incorporate the EFE plugin into Paint 3.5.11?

 

BTW, I tried understanding the YouTube video demo of EFE, but since my  vision is starting to fade, and since there was no narration, I couldn't catch on. It skimmed over visuals way too fast for me to absorb.

 

P.S. uh.. perhaps some more PMs may be in order, regarding explanations beyond scope of thread.

[Ego Eram Reputo]

Yes that's the correct thread.

 

Download the Zip file and unzip it.  Copy or move the *.dll file(s) to your Paint.NET /Effects folder.  Restart Paint.NET.

 

Full instructions here: Plugin Installation

[minni]

Yes that's the correct thread.

 

Download the Zip file and unzip it.  Copy or move the *.dll file(s) to your Paint.NET /Effects folder.  Restart Paint.NET.

 

Full instructions here: Plugin Installation

OK, I downloaded & used EFE & glow & your instructions.

Result: http://oi60.tinypic.com/9uvywx.jpg

 

I guess my eyes are too old, since I found it hard to discern thru the 125-opacity mud where the earthy rim surrounding the water began.

 

But I've found it interesting to see how you go about it!

Maybe I'll try lassowing again, this time using EFE & glow.

 

Which effects (and adjustments) do most average users find themselves using a lot?

Is there a listing anywhere of most widely-used plugins?

 

Also, I'm not sure if I should go on to my next question on my step-by-step list?

Or maybe I should take time out instead to learn Linux Puppy since XP is stopping MSE support.

Can Paint be used in Linux Puppy?

Edited March 24, 2014 by minni

[Cc4FuzzyHuggles]

Fuzzy Huggles your pics are beautiful and must have been lots of work!

Is there a reason they're cut off at the right?

 

Both of your original pictures don't have much to work with on the right side. The mud image doesn't really have a muddy-wall on the right side, and both images in the bottom right corner don't have any form of dirt/muddy walls, which lead the mud to looking like it's flowing out. Since this was just an example picture and the right side was a tight space to work in, I didn't put in as much effort as I could have. I probably could of blended a right wall, but the bottom corner is a bit hopeless.

 

And oh, the images really weren't lots of hard work, just lots of tedious work and fiddling. So I will admit, the end result did take longer than I wanted it too, lol.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Cc4FuzzyHuggles

[Ego Eram Reputo]

I guess my eyes are too old, since I found it hard to discern thru the 125-opacity mud where the earthy rim surrounding the water began.

Try lowering the opacity even more.

Which effects (and adjustments) do most average users find themselves using a lot?

Is there a listing anywhere of most widely-used plugins?

There a number of packs pinned in the Plugin Pack section of the forum. These are considered highly among the members of the forum. You can't really go wrong downloading a handful of these packs.

Which are the most useful? It's the plugin which does the next job on your list

Can Paint be used in Linux Puppy?

No. There was the embryo if a linux conversion long ago. I believe that this has fallen by the wayside. There might be an emulator which might do the job - you're best asking in a Linux forum.

[minni]

FuzzyHuggles, I see, thanks! Which special effects plugins did you use? If I remember correctly, I think I was searching for the plugins you listed, such as "smudging" etc. etc. but couldn't find them.

BTW, if you rendered your signature logo, it's amazing!

 

Ego Eram, I saw the various packs-listings, but the list was huge for newbs to swallow. For starters, I think I'd be most interested in plugins which "potently" accomplish goals (for example "glow"). I'm not so good at catching on to the more subtle ones, many of which seem to overlap. I had found myself going down the Effects menu in the basic package, but sorta baffled as to what some of them were supposed to be doing. For wet newbs, it's best to reference a compact list (the more compact the better) of "before & after" conspicuous demo's of those Effects which achieve the most evident transformations.

 

At least that's my unsolicited opinion

 

As for Linux Puppy, oh boy, does that mean I'd be vulnerable every time I use Paint.net in XP (due to termination of MSE support?)

What a disappointment [sigh] there's just no end to the obstacles I run into with high tech.

Edited March 25, 2014 by minni

[david.atwell]

I apologize if I seemed impatient - it was more like I was trying to figure out how best to convey what I was attempting to achieve.

 

For future reference, how long a time period should pass before "bumping" one's post (or whatever?

Sorry for the delay.  Apology accepted.  I understand how frustrating this can be.

 

As for the question:  Forum rules, #25 (but read them all).  :-)