jselbie Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I didn't see this in the FAQ. Perhaps it has been discussed before. I understand the need to have the paint.net website funded through advertising. But it's rather disengenious to have unframed ads that say "Download", which redirect you to sites encouraging you to download something else. Most of which are from suspect websites that are bundling well known free software with adware. Case in point, for one of the ads suggesting it was a download for 7-Zip (a well known file compression tool). Downlopedia.com is distributing modified installers which differ from the originals. The modified installers are compliant with the original software manufacturer's policies and terms & conditions. InstallIQ™ is an install manager that will manage the installation of your selected software. In addition to managing the installation of your selected software, InstallIQ™ will make recommendations for additional free software that you may be interested in. Additional software may include toolbars, browser add-ons, game applications, anti-virus applications, and other types of applications. You are not required to install any additional software to receive your selected software. You can completely remove the program at any time in Windows' I strongly considered not downloading Paint.NET (after I found the real link). If the hosting of the site has no scruples to redirectiing their own customers to adware, how can I be sure the paint.net installer isn't bundling the same stuff? jrs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Brewster Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 ... how can I be sure the paint.net installer isn't bundling the same stuff? Because I promised to never do that, and I don't go back on my word. http://blog.getpaint.net/2010/12/22/photoshop-filters-and-more-silly-business-proposals/ I may have said this before, but I promise Paint.NET will never bundle unrelated bloody potato that requires you to babysit the installer in order to opt-out of it. When you get an update for Paint.NET, it will only be Paint.NET. It’ll never install something else or hijack your browser’s homepage, all because you forgot to babysit the installer and missed a checkbox that defaulted to the “checked” state. Quote The Paint.NET Blog: https://blog.getpaint.net/ Donations are always appreciated! https://www.getpaint.net/donate.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jselbie Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Rick, The fundamental problem is that if I told my Mom, wife, or a less tech savvy friend to go "download paint.net", there is a high probability they would would download and install something else. That giant "DOWNLOAD" link on the center of your website is for a verison of Gimp bundled with crapware.... But you already know this. So the bottom line - why are you making downloads to crapware more prominent than the download to your own product? How much revenue would you lose if those ads were placed more appropriately so as to not mislead visitors coming to your site looking for Paint.Net? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minners71 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 If Rick said it wont happen that's good enough for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim100361 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 So the bottom line - why are you making downloads to crapware more prominent than the download to your own product? How much revenue would you lose if those ads were placed more appropriately so as to not mislead visitors coming to your site looking for Paint.Net? You really should pay attention when you read things. Is this how you enter into rental/lease agreements or mortgages? I've pointed out previously that it is clearly marked - is it more prominent? I suppose not, but then again that is more or less the idea behind the ads in the first place isn't it? To get people to click on them (inadvertently or otherwise). Afterall, he's got to generate revenue for a product that he is practically giving away free - I doubt everybody is donating to help him, and if they are, I also doubt it's anywhere near what it would cost you for that other program. Consider it fortunate the site isn't full of popups! Take your time and read, you'll soon find it's a valuable life lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Brewster Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 How much revenue would you lose ... Enough such that Paint.NET would just not be worth the time and effort. (I removed the 2nd part of the sentence from the quote to generalize the domain of the response. I haven't studied the effects of ad placement and whatnot -- honestly, I've got the ads in the same place that Google recommended to me back in 2007.) Here's my recommendation: install AdBlock. No, seriously. I mean it! And it should be simple enough to get that installed for family members, etc. Quote The Paint.NET Blog: https://blog.getpaint.net/ Donations are always appreciated! https://www.getpaint.net/donate.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdnnoob Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 How much revenue would you lose if those ads were placed more appropriately so as to not mislead visitors coming to your site looking for Paint.Net? ...could the reason be that it takes extreme measures like those to make up for the lack of donations from users that don't believe it takes time that could otherwise be used for more productive labor to provide and maintain a completely free product that boasts simplicity and ease of use while still able to produce quality results that rival those of a $1000.00 program?Seriously, though, Rick has a life too and he doesn't HAVE to sit around coding freeware. Just complete the IQ test once and you won't have to go through it again... Quote No, Paint.NET is not spyware...but, installing it is an IQ test. ~BoltBait Blend modes are like the filling in your sandwich. It's the filling that can change your experience of the sandwich. ~Ego Eram Reputo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Brewster Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Be nice pdnnoob .... Quote The Paint.NET Blog: https://blog.getpaint.net/ Donations are always appreciated! https://www.getpaint.net/donate.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jselbie Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Quite the little flame war I started. This wasn't the intent. But I do recognize that making critical remarks of paint.net in this forum was likely going to get a critical response thrown back at me. I'm just registering my voice that it is disingenuous to misdirect users into downloading something harmful to their computer - even if it is in the name of "revenue making for what is otherwise a free product". The "good" of what paint.net delivers to the Internet is offset by the "bad" of what the ads are redirecting visitors to do. You really should pay attention when you read things. Is this how you enter into rental/lease agreements or mortgages? Jim, what did I misread or not observe? If you are referring to the distinction between the ads and the real download links, then I have to confess, I think they are deliberately misleading. Users are accustomed to visiting software product sites and finding the "download now" link in a prominent position. The content in the ad plays on that assumption. But you already know this. but then again that is more or less the idea behind the ads in the first place isn't it? To get people to click on them (inadvertently or otherwise). The "inadvertently" part is my complaint. As such, you just confirmed that you know what you are doing. And I suspect everyone else involved with the site does. Take your time and read, you'll soon find it's a valuable life lesson. Your ad hominem tone is not resonating with me. Neither is the other guy who remarked something about an IQ test. If the official response was something like: "The click-throughs on the ads generate valuable revenue to offset the costs of developing Paint.Net. We would like to redirect users to more legitimate products that could complement their experience with our software, but we've found that we can't be compensated enough". Then, I would take that as a very honest and refreshing response. But don't play it like you didn't think the ads are misleading while maintaining the stance of "we need the money". Either be open about the misdirection to advertiser sites or fix it for a better experience within your own site. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdnnoob Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 If the official response was something like: "The click-throughs on the ads generate valuable revenue to offset the costs of developing Paint.Net. We would like to redirect users to more legitimate products that could complement their experience with our software, but we've found that we can't be compensated enough". Then, I would take that as a very honest and refreshing response. But don't play it like you didn't think the ads are misleading while maintaining the stance of "we need the money". Either be open about the misdirection to advertiser sites or fix it for a better experience within your own site. If you read Rick's responses (which are the only official responses, as he is the only Paint.net developer if I remember correctly), he was completely honest about everything. I apologize about the flaming; it appears it has caused you to ignore the polite response Quote No, Paint.NET is not spyware...but, installing it is an IQ test. ~BoltBait Blend modes are like the filling in your sandwich. It's the filling that can change your experience of the sandwich. ~Ego Eram Reputo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.atwell Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) @jselbie - I noticed that you didn't pay any attention to the financial implications. You're getting a program worth at least $100 for $0, and the only hurdle you have to leap is that download link. Yes, it's a confusing link. Yes, I wish that Wise didn't try to advertise their crapped-up GIMP on Rick's page. Yes, I think he should move some stuff around. But, bottom line, if your argument is "the customer is always right," remember - there are no customers. You can't be a customer if you get it for free. Edited December 14, 2011 by david.atwell not GIMP-approved 1 Quote The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.Amy: But how did it end up in there?The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jselbie Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Yes, it's a confusing link. Yes, I wish that the GIMP didn't try to advertise on Rick's page. GIMP is not the one advertising. GIMP is a popular open-source graphics package that is maintained by an honorable group of developers. Their primary site, gimp.org, contains the download links to clean setup packages for Windows. The advertisement in question is from Wise Downloads. Wise, appears to have a business model by redistributing other people's free software packages for Windows with an augmented setup that installs some badware alongside their own . But the ad makes you think you're getting a clean copy of GIMP. No where on the wisedownload.com site does it mention that the setup packages come bundled with some other stuff. GIMP and Paint.NET are both well known within the graphics community and complement each other nicely. If you've heard of Paint.Net, you've likely heard of GIMP as well. So even a smart user, who's visiting the site to download paint.net, may see the GIMP link and say, "Hey, I need that too. Let me click this link to download it". Oops. Ok, I think I've said enough. I don't really want this thread to drag out. I've registered my complaint. It's been duly noted. And I appreciate people listening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim100361 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 But don't play it like you didn't think the ads are misleading while maintaining the stance of "we need the money". Either be open about the misdirection to advertiser sites or fix it for a better experience within your own site. My comments are strictly my own opinion. I am a weary traveller through these forums as you are. You voiced your comments, and I voiced my differing comments. I am not otherwise part of the official Paint.net "organization". I just frequent these forums for their tutorials, show-off my wares, and discuss things as we have done here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.atwell Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 GIMP is not the one advertising...The advertisement in question is from Wise Downloads. My apologies, you're absolutely right. I didn't mean to malign the GIMP Team's good name. My point stands; I've fixed the mistake. Thanks for being reasonable, jselbie. Quote The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.Amy: But how did it end up in there?The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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