Lawbro Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 While I was messing with the HSV values in the pallette window I noticed that often some of the values would change from what I'd specified by increments of 1 or 2. I understand that this is a pretty small change but I still found it bothersome that something was keeping me from having complete control over what I wanted the color to be. Is this intentional? Is this some overlooked bug? Is this common in other digital art programs? Some unavoidable result of whatever is used to calculate the color values? Something I'm missing here? I would really appreciate if somebody were to shed some light on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdnnoob Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I've also been having this issue, and it is especially noticeable when making pixel art. If anyone has an answer, please give! Quote No, Paint.NET is not spyware...but, installing it is an IQ test. ~BoltBait Blend modes are like the filling in your sandwich. It's the filling that can change your experience of the sandwich. ~Ego Eram Reputo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrochild Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 What do you mean "some of the values would change?" What values? You need to be more clear and descriptive. Quote ambigram signature by Kemaru [i write plugins and stuff] If you like a post, upvote it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawbro Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 I've been noticing this for the HSV sliders in the pallette window. Let's say I set the S to a value of 40. I click on a different color to edit that, and then come back to see it is 39. Is this any clearer? I can take screen shots to show you if I'm doing a bad job of describing it to you. This happens for all of the Sliders in HSV, but I don't know if it does for RGB. Also, my version is 3.5.8. if that is of any help. I think it'd be a good idea to see what version PDNnoob is using as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrochild Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 That's just rounding errors. Colors are stored in RGB format, even if you set them with the HSV sliders. When you set a color with the HSV sliders, it gets converted to an RGB color. If you save it in the palette and choose it again, it's loading the RGB color, and converting it back to HSV to set those sliders. So it's getting round-tripped from HSV->RGB->HSV. 1 Quote ambigram signature by Kemaru [i write plugins and stuff] If you like a post, upvote it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdnnoob Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 That's just rounding errors. Colors are stored in RGB format, even if you set them with the HSV sliders. When you set a color with the HSV sliders, it gets converted to an RGB color. If you save it in the palette and choose it again, it's loading the RGB color, and converting it back to HSV to set those sliders. So it's getting round-tripped from HSV->RGB->HSV. Thanks so much, pyro! That's something I'll need to take note of in the future... Quote No, Paint.NET is not spyware...but, installing it is an IQ test. ~BoltBait Blend modes are like the filling in your sandwich. It's the filling that can change your experience of the sandwich. ~Ego Eram Reputo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W@@dy Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 That sounds like a bug to me. Intentional, perhaps, but I don't think it's really acceptable to let colors you select be changed due to rounding tips while converting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ego Eram Reputo Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I'm not 100% sure but..... there probably isn't a perfect mapping of RGB -> HSV. Much like there is no perfect mapping of RGB to CYMK. You can rest assured that the RGB values will not change, but their interpretations in the HSV values may. It's down to rounding - as Pyrochild said. Quote ebook: Mastering Paint.NET | resources: Plugin Index | Stereogram Tut | proud supporter of Codelab plugins: EER's Plugin Pack | Planetoid | StickMan | WhichSymbol+ | Dr Scott's Markup Renderer | CSV Filetype | dwarf horde plugins: Plugin Browser | ShapeMaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faral Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) That sounds like a bug to me. Intentional, perhaps, but I don't think it's really acceptable to let colors you select be changed due to rounding tips while converting. It's not a bug at all. No colors are being changed. If you input 40, and then the value gets changed to 39, it's because both of those were exactly the same RGB color, so you have nothing to worry about. And all the formats store RGB colors anyway so you wouldn't gain anything from having paint.net use HSV internally. Edited October 7, 2011 by Faral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W@@dy Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Oh alright. So it's more of a failure for HSV to accurately express the RGB color selected, rather than a failure of HSV to correctly choose the RGB color you selected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.atwell Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Not really a failure...but that's just semantics. Yes, it's an inherent limitation in the differences between HSV, RGB, and CMYK. In each colorspace, there are colors that the other cannot render, or references to colors that will come out identical. There are literally an infinite number of colors that can be described in the world; RGB can only describe 16,277,216 of them (want to see them all? Click Here). That's a lot of colors (your computer will choke on it if it's not up to the task), but there are still subtle, undetectable variations between even 112, 112, 112 (hex #707070) and 112, 112, 113 (hex #707071). An infinite number of them. So RGB describes a mere 16.8 million colors, CMYK describes most of those but not all and a bunch more besides, and HSV overlaps both while describing still more colors. There are other models, too: Tristimulus, CIE, Pantone, sRGB, CcMmYK, YPbPr, RYB - all describing color spaces which overlap but don't fit completely inside the others. Be thankful that PdN only deals with RGB and HSV (with Alpha). (Okay, so technically, HSV is a description of RGB. But the point stands.) Quote The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.Amy: But how did it end up in there?The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountnman Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 thank you david, i realy didnt understand the difference before.. so who wants to paint a rainbow? Quote SARCASM- Just one of the many services I offer free to the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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