Feature Request: improvement of SELECT and ROTATE tools

[Guerrilla]

First of all want to say Thanx a million for excellent software !!! I use Paint.Net for several years already and very happy with it.

But ... I have started to process photos recently and I really miss 2 features:

1) quick way to align Horizon

2) crop photo according to "Golden Section" or "Rule of Thirds"

These 2 operation I have to do in GIMP for the time being (maybe it is very good software but I don't like it ... prefer to use Paint.Net)

Please, see my screenshots below as my vision how these 2 items can be done.

To align the Horizon all requested is only to display a Grid during Rotate operation.

it is easy to see on my photo that Horizon line is not very horizontal and will be easy to turn the image till it will match on of the Grid line

As for Rectangle Selection tool: maybe it is possible to extend the options as on my screenshot. Would be nice to have possibility to re-position/resize this selection (as it is done in GIMP). Hope it is not very difficult and can be implemented some day in some new Releases of Paint.Net.

Implementation of these 2 items will be very appreciated !!!

Please, feel free to comment/support my post.

Regards,

Alexey

[minners71]

Its already easy enough to do the horizon one, just open a new layer and draw a horizontal line, hold down shift to make sure it stays level. Go back to the layer with your pic on and use the and right mouse button to rotate, if you need to rotate just a small amount use the arrow keys on the keyboard while holding down the right mouse button. Then its just a case of recropping the image.

As for the 2/3rds one here is how I would do it. Open a new project and add new layer :AddNewLayer: and on this use the rectangle tool hold down shift to constrain it to a square and choose a size that will be easy to divide into 3 so say 900x900 draw vertical lines and horizontal lines 300px apart again hold down shift key to keep them straight. Crop this using the crop image function in the layers menu, delete the background layer and save as as .png to preserve transparency. Now when working on an image go to layers menu at the top of page and select import from file this will load the grid into a new layer you can then move this with the move tool and resize it by clicking on one of the corner nubs. Once you have it in position use the magic wand tool on this layer outside of the grid then select your picture layer in the layers window and hit control+X

Hope this helps.

Edited August 22, 2011 by minners71

[Ego Eram Reputo]

I'm convinced I've seen a plugin to draw the 'Rule of Thirds' grid on a layer. I cannot find it just at the moment, but I'll keep looking!

If I can't find it, it would be easy to create - any votes for such a plugin?

[Guerrilla]

Hey guys, thanx for your replies.

As for aligning the Horizon - yes, I've tried this way: created a new layer, used GRID Plugin to create a grid (will try to draw just one horizontal line next time ), aligned the Background level, deleted new layer with grid, cropped the background layer and saved the aligned image. But if the grid can be displayed during rotation, as I have suggested above, then it will be much easier !!! Or I can say - that will be the easiest way to align the horizon. I hope you agree with me.

As for the second suggestion - thank you for your suggestion !!! Will try it. I have also tried to find an appropriate Plugin for this but without any luck ... Googled for hours and hours for info how to crop the image based on "Golden Section" or "Rule of Thirds" ... have found similar suggestion here on the forum ... but it also include creating a new layer.

I guess there are several ways to do this or some other tricks but would be nice to have it in the easiest and fastest way ... maybe as I have suggested above: implement the option to display the "Golden Section" or "Rule of Thirds" grid during Selection operation ...

More comments are appreciated.

[Guerrilla]

Hey guys ... was busy today with "Golden Section" and "Rule of Thirds" as minners71 has suggested (thanx a million for that ) ... and I made some templates, in case if someone need them ... please, feel free to download and use them

and here one photo I made today using first template

Edited August 24, 2011 by Guerrilla

[yellowman]

I'm convinced I've seen a plugin to draw the 'Rule of Thirds' grid on a layer. I cannot find it just at the moment, but I'll keep looking!

If I can't find it, it would be easy to create - any votes for such a plugin?

Could be this?

EDIT:And for the 3x3 grid, you can always use Tiling and zoom out the layer Rotate/Zoom to 0.33 after adding BoltBaits Outline Selection plugin to the canvas

Edited August 24, 2011 by yellowman

[Ego Eram Reputo]

Thanks Yellowman. I'm sure it was a plugin..... Nevermind, I'm developing a little tool to do the job.

[minners71]

Glad I could be of help. I was wondering if you could explain the different templates you have made and when you use them, especially the ones with the spirals ?

[Guerrilla]

Thanks Yellowman. I'm sure it was a plugin..... Nevermind, I'm developing a little tool to do the job.

That sounds optimistic !!! Thank you very much !!! ... and also, if possible, maybe you can develop a Plugin for Horizon alignment ... Thanx a million in advance !!!

Glad I could be of help. ...

Yes, thank you for your tip on using template to add it to the new layer from the file ... that is cool !!! ... but hope this cropping operation can be done easier without adding a new layers. Will be waiting for new tools from Ego Eram Reputo

Edited August 24, 2011 by Guerrilla

[Guerrilla]

In Topic "Popular Feature Requests" has been mentioned to add a Plugin Manager. That is very necessary !!! ... I have installed one Plugin-Pack with 140 different plugins ... but now it is difficult to find the one I need ... just was thinking that would be great to have a small feature in Plugin Manager - "Favorite Plugins" to create a separate folder with all favorite and frequently used Plugins to have them all in one place ... something like that:

Hope Development Team can read this post and think about this feature !!!

... made some modifications now ... I think it should be enough to have two options in Plugin Manager: "Add New" and "Favorite Plugins"

Would be nice to have a chance to move Plugins up and down in the Favorite List for better sorting. To Add or Delete Plugins to Favorite List or to remove the Plugin completely - maybe that can be done via Right Mouse Click on a Plugin to get a sub-menu and choose the desired option.

Hope this will help in improving of Paint.Net !!!

Edited August 24, 2011 by Guerrilla

[Ego Eram Reputo]

Something to play with:

Let me know if you have ideas for improving it.

Oh and if you can find and equation for the Golden Spiral, I'd like to add that too!

[pdnnoob]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_spiral

wikipedia ftw!

[Guerrilla]

Something to play with: http://forums.getpai...iew__getnewpost

Let me know if you have ideas for improving it.

Oh and if you can find and equation for the Golden Spiral, I'd like to add that too!

Hallo Ego Eram Reputo.

Thank you very much for your efforts !!! ... but ... I could't make the plugin working as I thing it should work. I have tried to apply it to main layers, also to the empty new layer and also to a duplicated main layer. Look at the screenshot ...

to adjust the Horizon (or Vertical lines) it is necessary to display the Grid (as I have suggested above to display a grid during Rotate operation.

As for Rule of Thirds - it is necessary to integrate a Rule of Thirds lines to the Rectangle Selection tool ... or to similar tool, when it will be possible to select necessary part of the image, reposition if requested and then apply "Crop to Selection".

Now in your plugin I couldn't apply any changes for fixing the horizon (slider on Adjust Horizontal was not making any changes ... and +-500 - what is that? Is that Degrees? Sometimes I need to apply, for example, -0,48 degree in rotation tool to fix the horizon). And to fix the horizon - you need a line(s) very close to the horizontal (or can be also vertical) line of the photo. And Cropping image based on Rule of Thirds or Golden Section must be a separate tool. These two cannot be applied together to the photo at the same time.

Maybe I was doing something wrong ... but I hope you can explain to me what need to be done for proper rotation of the image to fix horizontal or vertical lines and how to select part of the image for proper crop. Now once it is applied - it is not possible to reposition the grid or to rescale.

But thanx for developping the tool ... hope you will manage to make it working !!! And hope I can help you with testing

[Ego Eram Reputo]

I could't make the plugin working as I thing it should work. I have tried to apply it to main layers, also to the empty new layer and also to a duplicated main layer.

It is meant to be run on it's own layer.

to adjust the Horizon (or Vertical lines) it is necessary to display the Grid (as I have suggested above to display a grid during Rotate operation.

The center guidelines give you a horizon to rotate to. This guideline can be shifted up or down as required.

As for Rule of Thirds - it is necessary to integrate a Rule of Thirds lines to the Rectangle Selection tool

It is. Make a selection and run the plugin - the rule of 1/3rds guidelines will only extend as far as the selection edges.

Now in your plugin I couldn't apply any changes for fixing the horizon (slider on Adjust Horizontal was not making any changes ... and +-500 - what is that? Is that Degrees? Sometimes I need to apply, for example, -0,48 degree in rotation tool to fix the horizon).

You'll have to eyeball the rotation yourself. This plugin just gives you a guideline to work to.

Run the plugin on its own layer & adjust the horizontal guideline (with the slider) to roughly match the image horizon (slider is in pixels and measured from image/selection center).

Select the image layer press CTRL + A (select all) then M (move tool) right click and move the mouse to rotate the image until the image horizon matches the guideline.

Cropping image based on Rule of Thirds or Golden Section must be a separate tool. These two cannot be applied together to the photo at the same time.

Apply them one at a time on separate layers.

Have noticed that the cropping tool isn't limited to the current selection - I'll fix this.

[Guerrilla]

Hi Ego Eram Reputo.

Ok, thanx for explanation ... I have tested once again. There are some comments:

1) Positioning of horizontal line is clear now, works just fine !!!

2) Positioning of vertical line would be also very nice to have, if possible

3) Making Rule of Thirds grid works also, but somehow that makes a black box on the right side (if Black is selected as main color), keeping the rest quadratic. Is that done on purpose? If yes, can you, please, explain what for. Changing options in "Aspect Ration" menu makes the black area bigger and it runs over the image from right to left. I think this menu suppose to rescale applying grid accordingly, but it doesn't work ... or I do something wrong again

4) The "Rule of thirds" grid must have a frame around, like the red one on my screenshot. That will allow to use Magic Wand to select everything around the "prepared for cropping" area, then I press "Invert Selection", go back to main layer and crop.

5) If image is big (I have Canon 600D - 18 MP) then all lines are very thin and they are difficult to be recognized on the image. If possible, maybe add an option to make the lines thicker?

6) And even with average size pictures the plugin is working VERY SLOW !!! Every change in settings page of the plugin makes you waiting for these changes to be displayed. I have tested some other plugins (Grid Maker) with original 18 MP photo and it works really much faster.

Here some results:

Your Plugin: opening the plugin, it starts to draw the lines: from the beginning, till it finish drawing is took 64 sec !!!

.................: if I change position of Horizontal line or something else - it also took 62 sec

.................: if I press "OK" button to implement changes - took 10 sec to apply the grid to the layer

Grid Maker: opening the plugin, it starts to draw the lines: from the beginning, till it finish drawing is took 7 sec !!!

.................: if I change position of Horizontal line or something else - it also took 7 sec

.................: if I press "OK" button to implement changes - took 9 sec to apply the grid to the layer

I hope it is possible to increase the speed ... otherwise will be no fun to wait for so long for every change in settings.

Some ideas ... Maybe it is also possible to add "Golden Section" option additionally to "Rule of thirds" ??? You can take my templates from the post above. And maybe it is also possible to add a combined template ... but both grids must be different color

The center lines ... would be nice to have a chance to change their color ... to be different from other lines ... it is a bit confusing now

... well these are my remarks ... hope they are OK for you and will help to improve your very nice tool !!! I guess I will be using it a lot

And thanx a million for spending your time on it !!!

Edited September 4, 2011 by Guerrilla

[Ego Eram Reputo]

2) Positioning of vertical line would be also very nice to have, if possible

I can do that.

3) Making Rule of Thirds grid works also, but somehow that makes a black box on the right side (if Black is selected as main color), keeping the rest quadratic. Is that done on purpose?

There are three tools. Each is activated by a checkbox. You have the "Cropping Guide" checked - that is why you see the black box - it's the cropping guide.

can you, please, explain what for. Changing options in "Aspect Ration" menu makes the black area bigger and it runs over the image from right to left.

Cropping guide colors a region that is outside the bounds of height vs width. The actual ratio is set in the aspect ratio. So in the following screenshot, you have a portrait orientation selected, and a ration of 1.618, so the cropping guide is showing you a height of 1.618 * the width. Everything else is coloured black to indicate that its outside the cropping area for this orientation and aspect ratio.

4) The "Rule of thirds" grid must have a frame around, like the red one on my screenshot. That will allow to use Magic Wand to select everything around the "prepared for cropping" area, then I press "Invert Selection", go back to main layer and crop.

Just make a selection and run the plugin - no frame required.

5) If image is big (I have Canon 600D - 18 MP) then all lines are very thin and they are difficult to be recognized on the image. If possible, maybe add an option to make the lines thicker?

Zoom in. The lines become inaccurate if they are thicker - does 1/3 start on the left, middle or right hand side of a 5 pixel width line?

6) And even with average size pictures the plugin is working VERY SLOW !!! Every change in settings page of the plugin makes you waiting for these changes to be displayed. I have tested some other plugins (Grid Maker) with original 18 MP photo and it works really much faster.

it's not optimized. Its a work in progress.

Maybe it is also possible to add "Golden Section" option

Working on this.

The center lines ... would be nice to have a chance to change their color ... to be different from other lines ... it is a bit confusing now

Run the plugin on a new layer for each set of guidelines you want. Change the primary color in between layers.

[Guerrilla]

Hi !!!

Ok, now it is clear about Cropping Guide !!! Excellent tool !!! ... That was not just obvious that Croping Guide and Aspect Ratio belong to the same group ... it looks like Croping Guide check box belongs to "Rule of Thirds" section ... therefore maybe it makes sense to reposition a "sections splitters" somehow like this:

in that case it will be totally clear which options and checkboxes belongs to which section.

When I apply the Rule of Thirds grid to the second layer, then do CTRL+A to select the layer, press SHIFT, resize and reposition as I need, then I take Magic Wand and click outside of selection ... it still marks the area inside the grid ... see the screenshot:

That means the frame around the grid is required. Of course it is possible to draw a black frame using Rectangle tool ... but maybe it is possible to integrate the frame into your plugin. That will make the croping process faster.

As for positioning of Horizontal line ... when I press DOWN button at the number field (not on the slider) then horizontal line moves UP !!! It is very confusing ... if I need to move the line DOWN then I need to decrease the number in the input field ... if I need to move UP - then I increase ... that is logical. It is working opposite now.The same to Left and Right ... Left must be negative and Right - positive.

And as you can see - I have added a color selection to the plugin's screenshot for Central Lines and for Rule of Thirds also ... that will make the photo processing easier ... will be no need to create a separate layer for Central Lines and for other lines. If that is possible to do - then it will be fantastic !!!

Well ... thanx again for spending your time for developing this tool !!! I am sure at the end that will be very nice and useful tool for everybody who is working with photos.

[Ego Eram Reputo]

.. therefore maybe it makes sense to reposition a "sections splitters" somehow like this:

Not in codelab

When I apply the Rule of Thirds grid to the second layer, then do CTRL+A to select the layer, press SHIFT, resize and reposition as I need, then I take Magic Wand and click outside of selection ... it still marks the area inside the grid ... see the screenshot:

Make your selection first. Then run the plugin to create the guidelines. Your selection will remain after the plugin closes.

As for positioning of Horizontal line ... when I press DOWN button at the number field (not on the slider) then horizontal line moves UP !!! It is very confusing ... if I need to move the line DOWN then I need to decrease the number in the input field ... if I need to move UP - then I increase ... that is logical.

The up/down buttons affect the slider position. Down deceases the value of the slider. A negative value moves the horisontal line up away from the centre. This is not going to be changed. If you don't like the action, just use the slider which is marked up and down.

And as you can see - I have added a color selection to the plugin's screenshot for Central Lines and for Rule of Thirds also ... that will make the photo processing easier ... will be no need to create a separate layer for Central Lines and for other lines. If that is possible to do - then it will be fantastic !!!

I'll think about it....,

[Rick Brewster]

I've filed a bug for 4.0 to look into adding rule of thirds (and maybe the other options you listed) to the rectangle selection. I agree that could be useful.

Grid lines can be easily accomplished with various plugins, as others have noted, so I doubt I'll make that a built-in feature.

[Ego Eram Reputo]

Development halted! Rick can do this way better than I can!

I'll leave the plugin in the Developers section so it is still available if people really want to fiddle with it.

I'll add a little more explanation of how to use it in that thread (using the above discussion as a base).

[Guerrilla]

Rick !!!

Thanx a million for paying your attention to my post !!! ... and thanx a million for Paint.Net !!!

Well ... as for implementing the grid lines ... I think it is only necessary to extent the Rotation tool with options to display a grid with desired number of lines or gaps between them as I have suggested in my first post ... then it will be not required to create a separate layer for this operation !!!

then the rotation process for aligning Horizontal or Vertical lines will be very easy !!! ... and maybe a chance to add a selection of few colors for the grid

And thanx for adding "Rule of thinds and Co." to your "to-do list" !!! Appreciate it very much !!! ... yes, that will be very useful feature !!!

[Red ochre]

I have taken the liberty of developing an alternative plugin to do this, which may serve as a stop gap.

Any questions/suggestions welcome.

composition tool beta

[Soldiershak]

Also please add an option to disable Anti Aliasing when you use "Rotate/Zoom".

[Ego Eram Reputo]

Also updated my original code so it runs properly. The effect runs almost instantly.

That should make you happy Guerrilla