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pdnnoob

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This is less me giving suggestions on how to get people to read rules as it is me asking for opinions and giving suggestions about the matter. Read on for details ;)

summary of paragraph 1: Lots of people have not actually read the forum rules (because they are boring)

I go through the topics in general discussion quite often and a large percentage of them have a post by an admin/mod (usually EER or pyro) saying the topic has been moved. Not as often, I decide to sift through the tutorials and I always see at least 2 new tutorials locked for not abiding by the forum rules. Knowing that, I think it is safe to assume that there is a generous portion of users here that don't read the rules. Why? Rules are boring. How often do people install a program and check the "I have read the terms and conditions" without actually reading them? When I arrived in these forums, I did the same thing, and I'm still a bit hazy about some of the rules here.

summary of paragraph 2: Solution = Make rules NOT boring

Sort of like how

decided to do things. People usually don't do things because they are tedious and they don't get anything immediate out of it. So instead of making a long list of rules that people have to read voluntarily, make something interesting out of it. A slide show? An interactive flash animation? Anything that would be more interesting than a boring list of rules...

So, what do you admins/mods think, what do you users think, what ideas do you have, and who will volunteer to do it? I realize it is not easy to do what I'm asking, but I have a feeling it will save lots of time for the mods and admins...

PS Could we make the rules more noticeable? The previous forum had the big yellow box with big letters with a link to the rules, but we just have a tiny category that blends into the forum now...just saying :/

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I think no matter what format the rules come in you'll always get 2 sets of people ... those who bother to peruse and try to abide by them.

Then those who think they don't apply to them. Regardless of how sexxy you try to make them

(The cynical side of me thinks that applies in life as well as forums, judging by some of the driving I've seen today :traffic-light: )

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You know there are Terms of Use documents that will not let you proceed until you have read them. So people scroll through slow & still don't read them.

I doubt if you will ever get some people to read the rules & abide by them short of having a hand come out of the monitor to give a quick slap to the ear when they don't.

Yep, I agree - rules can be boring but when we don't follow them bedlam follows.

Great idea PDNoob & loved the clip too.

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There will always be people that ignore the rules even if I personally drive paper copies to their homes and staple to their heads. There's only so much we can do about that, whether it's a list, video, animation, slideshow, blimp, or multimillion dollar summer blockbuster.

I do agree that they are too long and complicated. There's a lot of room for simplification and better organization, so maybe we could make a project out of that?

Pictures may also help people get through the otherwise tl;dr tedium of a long page of uninteresting text. This is, after all, a forum dedicated to a graphics program.

And, of course, humor. The rules need an injection of funny.

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When they're creating an account, they could have to watch a slideshow and have a short quiz over the rules....or when they try to make their first post?

OR we could have a secret codeword in all of our posts, only known by reading the rules. No code word? No help =D

Although, I rather enjoy the imagery of pyro knocking on someone's door and when they open the door...BAM! Staple to the face!:pizza: A piece of pizza for every person you staple!

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Although, I rather enjoy the imagery of pyro knocking on someone's door and when they open the door...BAM! Staple to the face!:pizza: A piece of pizza for every person you staple!

How do you think I get people to sign their credit card receipts when I deliver their pizza? ;)

A staple gun on hand at all times is vital to my "profession."

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Rules is rules. Some people will always find them boring. Even if they were really interesting - loads of folks still won't bother to read 'em.

Rule6.png

Of course after a Rule Ogre nibbles on them a bit they get wise :D

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Suggestions for the rules:

  • Remove rules like "avatar size requirements" and the forums in which polls are allowed, as these are enforced by the forum . Also, sneak bumping is impossible now as IIRC the new forum doesn't allow normal users to delete their own posts.
  • Split them into sections. Newbies don't need to worry about signature rules if they just want to ask a question.
  • Just spell out each rule, rather than explaining the reason for it.
  • Make them easier to follow. For #7, just ask the user to click Utilities -> Check for Updates before posting.
  • Combine similar rules. #12 and #24 could be combined to say "Family friendly forum. Don't swear or post NSFW art."

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Suggestions for the rules:

  • Remove rules like "avatar size requirements" and the forums in which polls are allowed, as these are enforced by the forum . Also, sneak bumping is impossible now as IIRC the new forum doesn't allow normal users to delete their own posts.
  • Split them into sections. Newbies don't need to worry about signature rules if they just want to ask a question.
  • Just spell out each rule, rather than explaining the reason for it.
  • Make them easier to follow. For #7, just ask the user to click Utilities -> Check for Updates before posting.
  • Combine similar rules. #12 and #24 could be combined to say "Family friendly forum. Don't swear or post NSFW art."

Excellent, more suggestions like this please. GO GO GO

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I also think all the rules should be in one place. It would be annoying to read through the list of rules only to find more rules to read when posting a tutorial. Many of the tutorial rules (e.g. post in the correct section) go hand-in-hand with forum rules anyway, so posting them in the same thread would make them a bit shorter.

Also, the help file link in the rules is broken.

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Rules is rules. Some people will always find them boring. Even if they were really interesting - loads of folks still won't bother to read 'em.

Rule6.png

Of course after a Rule Ogre nibbles on them a bit they get wise :D

You could just start posting this picture(or one pertaining to the broken rule) on a thread if they don't follow the rules.:lol:

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I also think all the rules should be in one place. It would be annoying to read through the list of rules only to find more rules to read when posting a tutorial. Many of the tutorial rules (e.g. post in the correct section) go hand-in-hand with forum rules anyway, so posting them in the same thread would make them a bit shorter.

Also, the help file link in the rules is broken.

I support Simon Brown's suggestion.

In addition to his suggestion, how does the admins feel about granting permission to add PDF to the original tutorial author's first post? That is what we do at PDN Fanatics, and I feel that, for some people, the ability to download, save to the hard drive, and print it out for reference is handy.

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Sorry,Happy new year to everybody on the forum.I have learnt so much from the tutorials and hope to keep getting better without reading every single rule.Anyway,happy new year to all the mods,especially the grinch Pyro,keep up the good work.boltbait.big_smile.png

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I agree you guys should be less rough when enforcing rules.

Take school teachers for example. The lenient teachers have some rule breaking going on in class, but it is not a problem. The strict teachers on the other hand, keep everything squeaky clean but creativity is inhibited in the process and they get a bad reputation.

Something along the lines of that graphic seem ideal. :)

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Oi, enough about teachers ok? :lol: There are times when rules need to be followed & times when they can be changed or ignored. Wisdom is knowing when to do each. I have rules that are non-negotiable & others that are.

Ipswichmanc, that was most unkind & I'm rather disappointed. Push the bed against the wall... If you want your art to improve then there are rules that apply to elements of composition. Methods of working are like rules too. You might get better just by chance...

Rules ensure that everyone has a positive experience. For example, posting in the right section - imagine what a mess to navigate through, let alone perform a search for a question. Searching for previous answers - because we'd rather spend time creating that typing the same answers over & over & who in their right mind would want to be a mod?!

EER's comments to newcomers are gentle & to the point. A good example to follow esp. when he links back to the rules in question. Very good teaching & the advice is generally well taken.

Suggestion: A welcome email that explains the rules? No guarantee they will read them. Maybe make it that they have to agree to the terms? Not sure how hard it would be to implement this.

Rules should follow the KISS method. Yes, humour too - still thinking about that staple gun :lol:

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If people took time to read the rules in the first place they wouldn`t need enforcing would they?

I think Simon`s suggestions are good, and Lance`s idea of a PDF is spot on. Also , how about adding an introductory video explaining what the site is about, showing some of the best images and , while not exactly spelling out all the rules (that would be a bit boring after all) you could `mention' the ones that matter the most - like posting in the right place. And maybe you could show the search function on the forum in action.

Barbie you must have clicked the post button while I was writing mine! E-mail is a good idea. ;)

Edited by Goonfella

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I still think you can discuss this to death, get some great ideas ... but human nature is such that some will abide and some won't

Edited by welshblue

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Oi, enough about teachers ok? :lol: There are times when rules need to be followed & times when they can be changed or ignored. Wisdom is knowing when to do each. I have rules that are non-negotiable & others that are.

Ipswichmanc, that was most unkind & I'm rather disappointed. Push the bed against the wall... If you want your art to improve then there are rules that apply to elements of composition. Methods of working are like rules too. You might get better just by chance...

Rules ensure that everyone has a positive experience. For example, posting in the right section - imagine what a mess to navigate through, let alone perform a search for a question. Searching for previous answers - because we'd rather spend time creating that typing the same answers over & over & who in their right mind would want to be a mod?!

EER's comments to newcomers are gentle & to the point. A good example to follow esp. when he links back to the rules in question. Very good teaching & the advice is generally well taken.

Suggestion: A welcome email that explains the rules? No guarantee they will read them. Maybe make it that they have to agree to the terms? Not sure how hard it would be to implement this.

Rules should follow the KISS method. Yes, humour too - still thinking about that staple gun :lol:

Yes I agree Barbie.sorry,a little too much to drink I think.But I did apologiseboltbait.roll.png.

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got more attention with this than I expected :00:

anyhow, my idea wasn't to completely rid the forums of people that don't read the rules, it was to increase the number that do.

There are a small number of rules that are commonly broken. Even if the other rules are never read, informing more people of the common rules would greatly decrease the amount of work mods have to go through every day. Perhaps an introductory video with the following things might help:

  • a sentence on where to find the forum rules
  • a section on basic posting rules
  • a section on where things are meant to be posted
  • a short tutorial on posting tutorials and the commonly missed rules

Happy New Year!

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