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Illnab1024

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I guess this would be okay as long as we can keep some reasonable intelligence about this, but I thought that maybe we should set up a forum where somebody could give a topic, and their opinion on it.

These are mainly going to be big issues in the U.S. and perhaps the U.K., and most of my opinions will be based on democracy.

E.g. (and the first topic)

(Right to) Gay Marriage

I figured I would bring this one up because I want to see some intelligent opinions on this that don't just involve "God this..." and "God that...". Anyway, my stance on it so far is:

FOR - Once past the social aversion to be posted as a homosexual, and the fact that I am not a very religious person, I am greatly for this, in that it serves equal rights to every citizen, no matter his or her sexual orientation. Everyone would have the right to marry, just as everyone has the right to vote, the right to work, etc.

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I think if their gay, let the be, its how they are, and I'm not gay, although i do know how hard it could be to change how they are. and Why would you not allow someone to get married to the same sex? Love is love right? but its an opinion...

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Well, allow me to bring a Christian perspective to this discussion. :wink:

You may be surprised by this, but: FOR

That's right. I'm for gay marriage, or rather, against the amendment to abolish it. *gasp*

My real problem with it: The Church in America exists the way it does today solely because of Americas freedoms. The people who go to those Churches needn't worry about the government crashing in the door some Sunday because we worship someone other than George Bush, because of freedom. We can talk about God openly, because of freedom. (Notice a recurring theme here?)

Now, those same people who go take advantage of Americas freedoms every week to attend the Church of their choice and worship the Deity of their choice are attempting to deny freedoms to others. I find that extremely hypocritical, mirite?

Do I think homosexuality is a sin? Yes. But I don't think there should be a law against it. There are so many things that are sin according to the Bible, but nobody's trying to make laws against them. Why are we picking on the homosexuals? Because it's a poster issue, and if this amendment is passed, all the little Christians can stand up and say "Whoopie look at us we did something!" In truth, I think we should be spending less time lobbying and more time ministering.

I do believe that it is our call as Christians to change the world for the better, but not by making laws against sin. We should change things by leading sinners to Christ. So, start converting, maggots! :wink:

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I agree with CMD. The Bible says to speak the truth in love, not law. Furthermore, it says that the Law(Old Testament) is a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. Christ is love and now that Christ has come the old dispensation of the Law(OT) has passed and the new dispensation has come. As Christians we are lead by and filled with the Holy Spirit("Christ in us, the hope of glory."). Christ was the friend of sinners and in him there is no condemnation(think of the woman caught in adultery, or the woman at the well who was sleeping with like seven different men.). In my opinion Homosexuality is a sin and a choice, brought on by the lack of the guidance of Holy Spirit. As Christians all we can do is try to lead sinners to Christ, not use cattle prods on them.

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I don't really have a point in this subject. I don't think there should be a law but it is really GROSS, because it will incentive homosexuality. So meh.

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Hmm thats a tough one...

Here's the point of view of a 13 year old christian :D:

I suppose if two people love each other than thats awsome, but, don't forget that marrage is a christian belief, and I actually wonder why non christians (I hate that phrase!) actually get married anyway.

After saying that I've desided that I'm...well...UNDESIDED. But if I met two gay guys I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Btw the idea for this topic is GREAT!

Zacariem

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I suppose that marriage was solely a Christian belief until it became legalised and came with legal benefits.

Then everyone wanted a share of the pie...so marriage as it stands today in the U.S. is a legal term, then a christian term.

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Oh boy, New Topic!

Illegal Immigrants!

I guess there is no such thing as a FOR or AGAINST stance on this issue; there is only the matter of what to do with them.

I will take a just point of view on this issue, but in addition I wish to plead a few cases. It is nearly impossible to get immigrants in here legally. Nearly impossible. So, I suppose, we should not spend money on a wall to keep them out, or other useless B.S. like that. We should make it easier to go through the legal channels. Make the paperwork less vigorous. Make the waiting period less lengthy. That would get more legal immigrants in here than the rate they come now (respective to illegals). The illegals here now should be ported through a legal channel to make them actual citizens. And I think we shan't penalize them unjustly for being here illegally.

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And I think we shan't penalize them unjustly for being here illegally.

So you dont want to penalise them for leeching off our tax systems? Thats your opinion but I'm all for the giant wall idea.

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So you dont want to penalise them for leeching off our tax systems? Thats your opinion but I'm all for the giant wall idea.

Which taxes, BTW, do undocumented illegal immigrants leech off of? An illegal immigrant can't even collect a measly SS check.

And we should have all the rich people in the US physically build the wall!

You just wrote that while sitting at a computer (maybe even your laptop with the $650 software you claim to have on it). Watch out...there might be a shovel and some bricks headed your way.

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Which taxes, BTW, do undocumented illegal immigrants leech off of? An illegal immigrant can't even collect a measly SS check.

Just because they illegally get into our country undocumented does not mean they will remain that way. There have been countless police raids all around the country reguarding people producing fraudulent documentation for various clients. Call it a hunch but I'm guessing a large proportion of such clients are illegal immigrants.

Once you have these it's not hard to access some of the UK citizens benefits paid and funded by yours truely via the tax system... You want an example? Lets try the NHS. According to the government illegal immigrants have the right to basic services including the emergency services and things like TB jabs (for free of course). It has also been admitted by NHS that there is no solid way of preventing immigrants from recieving the same services as tax payers. Why is this? Because theres an estimated 400,000 illegal immigrants in the UK... and it is hardly the job of a GP to police the system...

Another example? How about crime? This is not a generalisation but a "niche" of immigrants shall we say commit themselves to wasting a sizable amount of our money by giving the police more work than they can handle. I live in a small town called Letchworth. It really is a very small town and so understandably is quite suprising when you have to go to work and rip a fake atm cover from the wall which is designed to duplicate cards and steal pin numbers. Now in this particular case it may not have been the work of illegal immigrants however if you watch programs like Watchdog and the NEWs, hell if you even read newspapers, then you won't be oblivious to the fact that the leading offendor group in this market is of course illegal immigrants. Watchdog did a bulletin special on this very subject if I remember correctly. A good friend of mine was a victim to this very crime and lost almost £500. If something like this is a country wide problem then how big a bill do you think the government has to pick up? And don't forget, if your government has a bill to pay then mutually you have a bill to pay.

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And we should have all the rich people in the US physically build the wall!

You just wrote that while sitting at a computer (maybe even your laptop with the $650 software you claim to have on it). Watch out...there might be a shovel and some bricks headed your way.

Actually I'm sitting at work where I'm in danger of losing my job to some call center in India...

And I didn't pay anything near $650 for any s/w on my Laptop, and the only thing on it that is worth $650, Paint.NET, is free!

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Actually I'm sitting at work where I'm in danger of losing my job to some call center in India...

And I didn't pay anything near $650 for any s/w on my Laptop, and the only thing on it that is worth $650, Paint.NET, is free!

The illegal immigrant discussion has almost nothing to do with outsourcing to India.

And you are sitting at a computer, just like I said.

Check your post on this thread (only a bit more than a month ago):

http://paintdotnet.12.forumer.com/viewt ... y%20laptop.

PS CS2 = $650 software. If you're not paying "anything near $650" you either got one amazing deal (including the possibility of having received the software as a gift) or you're, well, stealing (a.k.a. pirating) the software. Stealing $650 worth of software also kind of puts you in no position to argue about illegal immigrants stealing things from our country.

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I said "unjustly". I think it woulod be fine and dandy to punish them for cheating the system.

The topic as stated by you is currently "illegal immigration". Therefore your argument is floored in that as soon as they enter the country illegally they have cheated the system. When somone enters this country illegally they are immediately dodging taxes and citizen responsibilities.

And you say that the process to gain citizenship in this country is too long and hard? Well then consider the fact that between 1991 and 2005 approximately half of Britains population increase was due to immigration (llegal). Honestly it does not sound like it is "nearly impossible" to gain citizenship to me. Are you saying that we should at no point start to limit the speed of entry for immigrants? If we do not then think about how it will effect the average Joe in the long run. Recourses like the NHS will overflow with patients. Tax benefits will decrease (Lets not forget that immigrants are entitled to a sizable income benefit while they are in their "initial looking for work" period). Emergency services will be over worked (Heard of the Firemen striking throughout the country?).

In all honesty I am a bit fed up with this topic (not this forum topic but the general immigrant topic). There are so many official debates about this but I can't remember the last time a significant change was made to the immigration system.... and really, I have nothing against you but I really despise the ideal that you speak of where England is a multi cultural utopia and entry should be plain sailing for anyone from anywhere.

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PS CS2 = $650 software. If you're not paying "anything near $650" you either got one amazing deal (including the possibility of having received the software as a gift) or you're, well, stealing (a.k.a. pirating) the software. Stealing $650 worth of software also kind of puts you in no position to argue about illegal immigrants stealing things from our country.

You're forgetting that Adobe offers a 30 trial of PhotoShop. And I actually just upgraded to Vista RC1 and I ditched CS2...

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Do you think the school board has the responsibility to regulate the food available in highschool vending machines?

I, for one, see no problem in offering Twinkies and cup cakes. I think the vending machines should stock what sells--it just makes good business sense.

I think it is the responsibility of the student to make good life choices.

So, what do you think? Should the vending companies be allowed to fill the vending machines with junk food? Or, should they be forced to fill it with 'healthy' food?

I mean, come on, we all know the 'healthy' food isn't all that great either.

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