Debug error message displayed directly on the canvas

[julper]

I work with a lot of very large resolution images in PDN these days, both importing and exporting, some of which amount to at least a couple gigabytes for single-layer rasters. Recently, I've noticed opening a few choice images lead to these blocks of what looks like debug text popping up instead of the usual downscaled tiles from the work area's live preview.

 

For what it's worth to anyone, these screenshots came from importing a 702MB .png file, scaled at 20400x28080px.

 

I first noticed these curious tiles when I went and selected areas of the image to crop, as well as simple zooming in and out. I've also noticed that zooming seems to reset the tiles to display the selection of the image normally, though things tend to come up on occasion when I try to fiddle with cropping and such again.

 

I've been using this program for about 10-15 years and this is the first time I've ever noticed such an oddity working on any machine. Despite everything I've said, this has had minimal issues on my actual workflow in the program, though I did have my web browser crash when I finalized the crop job, and the source file seems fine and wholly intact.

 

 

Making a belated edit with basic info on the exact build I'm using, I suspect a lot of this is coming from me being on a beta currently, as well as the high resolution of these files in question.

 

Application                                                paint.net 5.1 (β 5.100.8986.33792)
Build Date                                                 Thursday, August 8, 2024
Expiration Date                                            Thursday, October 31, 2024
Install type                                               Classic

Language                                                   en-US
Scaling                                                    1.00x (96 DPI)
UI/Canvas GPU                                              True
Rendering GPU                                              🚀 Performance (Intel Iris Xe Graphics)
Advanced Color                                             True
Remote Session                                             False
Battery Saver                                              False
Animations                                                 True
Translucent Windows                                        True
Windows Ink                                                True

OS                                                         Windows 10 Home x64 (10.0.19045.0)
Runtime                                                    .NET 8.0.7 x64

Physical Memory                                            16,016 MB (5,689 MB free)
Paging File                                                60,599 MB (10,688 MB free)

CPU                                                        13th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-13900H
    Speed                                                  ~2995 MHz
    Cores / Threads                                        14 / 20
    Features                                               SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4_1, SSE4_2, AVX, AVX2

Display                                                    1
    Name                                                   Generic PnP Monitor
    Connected to                                           Intel(R) Iris(R) Xe Graphics
    Resolution                                             1920 x 1080, 8-bit, 60 Hz
    DPI                                                    96 (1.00x scale)
    Coordinates                                            (L=0, T=0, R=1920, B=1080)
    Advanced Color                                         StandardDynamicRange
    SDR white level                                        80 nits
    Color space                                            RgbFullGamma22NoneP709
    Composition Support                                    Fullscreen, Windowed

Video Card                                                 Intel(R) Iris(R) Xe Graphics
    Hardware Acceleration                                  Supported
    Performance Class                                      Good
    Dedicated Video RAM                                    128 MB
    Dedicated System RAM                                   0 MB
    Shared System RAM                                      8,008 MB
    Driver Version                                         31.0.101.4255
    Vendor ID                                              0x8086
    Device ID                                              0xA7A0
    Subsystem ID                                           0x17B31043
    Revision                                               4
    LUID                                                   0x0000EDD0
    Flags                                                  AcgCompatible, SupportMonitoredFences, KeyedMutexConformance
    Graphics Preemption                                    TriangleBoundary
    Compute Preemption                                     ThreadGroupBoundary
    Outputs                                                1
    Feature Level                                          Level_12_1
    Features                                               ComputeShadersEtc
    Maximum Bitmap Size                                    16384

Video Card                                                 Microsoft Basic Render Driver
    Hardware Acceleration                                  N/A
    Performance Class                                      VeryLow
    Dedicated Video RAM                                    0 MB
    Dedicated System RAM                                   0 MB
    Shared System RAM                                      8,008 MB
    Driver Version                                         10.0.19041.4355
    Vendor ID                                              0x1414
    Device ID                                              0x008C
    Subsystem ID                                           0x00000000
    Revision                                               0
    LUID                                                   0x0000F17F
    Flags                                                  Software, AcgCompatible, SupportMonitoredFences, KeyedMutexConformance
    Graphics Preemption                                    InstructionBoundary
    Compute Preemption                                     InstructionBoundary
    Outputs                                                0
    Feature Level                                          Level_12_1
    Features                                               Doubles, ComputeShadersEtc
    Maximum Bitmap Size                                    8388608

 

Edited September 19 by julper
added diagnostic info

[Tactilis]

Physical Memory                                            16,016 MB (5,689 MB free)

You have way too little RAM for the size of images you are trying to edit in paint.net plus the memory usage of all other apps that are running on your PC.

 

From the debug message it looks as though paint.net is trying to allocate about 1GB of memory and is failing.

 

 

 

48 minutes ago, julper said:

some of which amount to at least a couple gigabytes for single-layer rasters

 

paint.net will require approx 4.7GB of virtual memory for a single layer image of 20400x20400 px.

 

Do you have just one image open in paint.net, or multiple images?

 

 

 

Paging File                                                60,599 MB (10,688 MB free)

 

Due to insufficient physical RAM for the virtual memory requirement, your system is having to page out to and in from disk all the time. Performance is likely to poor.

 

 

48 minutes ago, julper said:

though I did have my web browser crash when I finalized the crop job

Likely due to Windows being out of memory.

 

 

[Rick Brewster]

This is actually a bug in the beta that I've been working on. I know exactly the problem and the fix. The canvas rendering engine is using waaaaaaaaaay too much memory when you zoom out a bunch. It's not your system.

 

I'll be posting an updated build as soon as it's ready!

 

[Tactilis]

3 hours ago, Rick Brewster said:

This is actually a bug in the beta that I've been working on. I know exactly the problem and the fix. The canvas rendering engine is using waaaaaaaaaay too much memory when you zoom out a bunch.

Oh, that's good to hear.


With 5.1, will the previously used formula for VM per image of  (Number of Layers + 2) * (Width * Height * 4) still apply?  Or is the + 2 reduced by the reworking that you have been doing?

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Rick Brewster said:

It's not your system.

OK.  But even with the problem fixed, at ~4.7GB per image, if @julper has just a few 20400x28080px images open, then taking into account the OS's and other apps' VM usage, they are going to bust their 16GB physical RAM and will be paging to disk.

 

 

[Rick Brewster]

5 hours ago, Tactilis said:

With 5.1, will the previously used formula for VM per image of  (Number of Layers + 2) * (Width * Height * 4) still apply?  Or is the + 2 reduced by the reworking that you have been doing?

It might be good to adjust it. You should remind me once 5.1 has been released. The +2 won't be a simple constant anymore (I don't think it has been since 4.0, in fact...) but we can probably figure out a simple enough heuristic.

[Rick Brewster]

5 hours ago, Tactilis said:

OK.  But even with the problem fixed, at ~4.7GB per image, if @julper has just a few 20400x28080px images open, then taking into account the OS's and other apps' VM usage, they are going to bust their 16GB physical RAM and will be paging to disk.

The problem in this case is that the tile cache is trying to allocate over a gigabyte just to store the pixels needed for rendering a single 128x128 tile that you see on screen. It's 128x128 after the zoom is applied, that is, meaning the source region is substantially larger. Their system has 14 cores / 20 threads, which means you have to multiply 1GB by somewhere between 14 and 20, meaning it's basically using up all of system memory just to draw anything on screen.

 

It's just a bug, the buffering just needs to be much finger grained. I've already got it working, I'm just trying to find the time to finish it up, land it, and release a new build.

[Rick Brewster]

Should be fixed now in v5.1 beta build 9038: