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Debate: The Legalisation of Guns


survulus
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We're not talking about saying "You can't have any guns" then not doing anything when people do have guns. We're talking about actually cracking down on gun possession - which is impossible to do now that so many people have guns. We're talking about a case where the above situation doesn't exist.

How do you propose to do that? Please re-read my note on the law enforcement differences between the UK and our nation.

 

The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
Amy: But how did it end up in there?
The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.
River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him.

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Did anyone read what i said earlier? Your treating life as something from a GTA game. If the crims got a gun i might as well have one to kill him first. Its not that simple, life isnt a hollywood movie. Your not getting a medal if you shoot the crim.

"Violence multiplies violence" Ghandi

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Did anyone read what i said earlier? Your treating life as something from a GTA game. If the crims got a gun i might as well have one to kill him first. Its not that simple, life isnt a hollywood movie. Your not getting a medal if you shoot the crim.

No, you don't get a medal - you get to keep on living! This is not some pride thing. This is about safety, about keeping yourself alive. You seem to think that people are naturally good, kindhearted folks with nothing but happiness in their hearts. I'm telling you that "People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it." People are selfish, people are mean, people are greedy, and until proven otherwise, we have to assume that at least one of them would prefer us dead than alive (or would prefer to own our stuff and take drastic measures to get there), and take steps to protect ourselves from that eventuality. As I've enumerated, there's no way our law enforcement can conceivably do that.

If you could somehow make everyone in the world become care bears with limited personal interest and limitless goodwill, I'd gladly put down my right to own a gun. But that's never going to happen. I don't own a gun, but eventually I will be a father, and I'll feel the need to protect my family.

I'm not saying that most of the world is out to get me; on the contrary, most people in the world have put their selfishness and greed aside just enough to be able to function in society; our public school system at least does that well enough most of the time. But there are some people who slip through the cracks - or just come out the other end and snap.

 

The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
Amy: But how did it end up in there?
The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.
River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him.

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Did anyone read what i said earlier? Your treating life as something from a GTA game. If the crims got a gun i might as well have one to kill him first. Its not that simple, life isnt a hollywood movie. Your not getting a medal if you shoot the crim.

No, you don't get a medal - you get to keep on living! This is not some pride thing. This is about safety, about keeping yourself alive. You seem to think that people are naturally good, kindhearted folks with nothing but happiness in their hearts. I'm telling you that "People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it." People are selfish, people are mean, people are greedy, and until proven otherwise, we have to assume that at least one of them would prefer us dead than alive (or would prefer to own our stuff and take drastic measures to get there), and take steps to protect ourselves from that eventuality. As I've enumerated, there's no way our law enforcement can conceivably do that.

If you could somehow make everyone in the world become care bears with limited personal interest and limitless goodwill, I'd gladly put down my right to own a gun. But that's never going to happen. I don't own a gun, but eventually I will be a father, and I'll feel the need to protect my family.

I'm not saying that most of the world is out to get me; on the contrary, most people in the world have put their selfishness and greed aside just enough to be able to function in society; our public school system at least does that well enough most of the time. But there are some people who slip through the cracks - or just come out the other end and snap.

But that's the thing, like said it isn't a hollywood blockbuster.

Let me repaint that picture that was there earlier. A mother with her children, the house has been broken into by a robber, he has gone to the GREAT legnths of getting a gun. But now the mother also has a gun. She popps from above the sofa she's been hiding beind, gets a clear shot at him and either 1 of 2 things can happen.

Either the robber sees he is being attacked and so uses the gun, pulling the trigger faster than the mother and killing her. This would not have happened if she had not had that gun, because all he'd be there for would be robbery.

That or she pulls the trigger, this mans blood goes over the carpets, the children cheer and everybody's happy. Somehow I don't think so.

Guns on bring more violence than is necessary to the situation, and it's volatile enough. Not to mention if at least some restrictions are put on guns there is a much smaller chance of the crim having the gun in the first place, letting guns flow freely to everyone means there's more guns for the criminals too, you'll notice.

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We're not talking about saying "You can't have any guns" then not doing anything when people do have guns. We're talking about actually cracking down on gun possession - which is impossible to do now that so many people have guns. We're talking about a case where the above situation doesn't exist.

How do you propose to do that? Please re-read my note on the law enforcement differences between the UK and our nation.

Just banning guns without anything else wouldn't work. I live in Canada. There's WAY more land/officer here in Canada than in the US. You don't get shootings as often though. Out of 100.000 people here in Canada, 1.9 people are murdered. 1/3 of these murders involve firearms. In the US, for the same number of people, 5.6 are killed.

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Yes, and if this one turns out the same way as the other one, I'll do the same thing as I did before. :-)

 

The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
Amy: But how did it end up in there?
The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.
River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him.

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I doubt it'll devolve to that sort of thing, I'm not a person for circular reasoning, and from what I see here the argument has been intelligent and well informed on both sides, which I enjoy.

I agree. I disagree greatly with the pro-banning folks in the argument, but I find my respect for them even greater because they have not resorted to ad hominem idiocy, like the last thread did. Nobody's called anyone a baby-killer, and nobody's called anyone an anti-freedom nutjob. At least, not to my knowledge. :-) And if this thread continues, I ask that it continue in that way. Well-thought out, well-reasoned discussion and dissent; not infighting and namecalling.

 

The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
Amy: But how did it end up in there?
The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.
River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him.

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"Legalisation" with an S is not the American spelling of the word. The person who started this debate is from Scotland, making this an international debate.

Nobody's called anyone a baby-killer, and nobody's called anyone an anti-freedom nutjob.

Be quiet you babby-killing anti-freedom nutjob.

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I don't mind killing babbies, to be honest. So long as they deserved it.

 

The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
Amy: But how did it end up in there?
The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.
River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him.

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That's hilarious!

Oh, internet bad spellings, how I love thee...

 

The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
Amy: But how did it end up in there?
The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.
River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him.

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this morning, (im in australia btw) i heard on the morning news that two men in california shot each other to death in a toy store...

 

You should get the Win7 theme for XP. Then get the rest of Win7. Then uninstall XP. Then it'll really look nice. ~ David Atwell

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