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new to paint.net, suggestions


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(1) (moved to bug reports)

 

(2) I suggest larger visibility checkboxes in the Layers Pane, they are sometimes hard to hit. There is enough room (or even eyes/some icon instead of checkboxes)

 

(3) I suggest a keyboard shortcut to quickly move thru the layers up and down. And it should affect the visibility of the layer in three ways, or modes:

(a) do not change visibility of the layers

(b) when going down, turn off visibility of the previously active layer, turn on visibility of the newly active layer, leave other layers as they are. When going up, just turn on the visibility of new active layer ((b) is the cumulative mode of the layer stack)

(c) when going up or down, turn on visibility of the new active layer, turn off visibility of all other layers, except the lowest (if "sticky"). ((c) is the exclusive mode to the layer stack)

 

This would help to assess the effect of the layers without doing three mouse movements and corresponding distracting off-image eye movements. It is the eye movements.

 

(4) I suggest horizontal and vertical guides, that is probably just one each. Guides can of course be put into layers, but then they become part of the image and are harder to manage. (Measuring is probably asking to much)

 

Peter.

 

Edited by Peter1
misprint. (1) moved to bugs
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20 minutes ago, Peter1 said:

(5) I would also like to suggest as a file format, save to "pdn.zip" with just a simple compression and no passwords. It is about storing away version after version, while working on a drawing.

 

There are several FileType plugins that allow zip files to be saved, you can find a list by searching the Plugin Index.

PdnSig.png

Plugin Pack | PSFilterPdn | Content Aware Fill | G'MICPaint Shop Pro Filetype | RAW Filetype | WebP Filetype

The small increase in performance you get coding in C++ over C# is hardly enough to offset the headache of coding in the C++ language. ~BoltBait

 

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17 hours ago, null54 said:

 

There are several FileType plugins that allow zip files to be saved, you can find a list by searching the Plugin Index.

There is only one, named ImZIP.FileType, and it does not save the current PDN into a zip, which I would need. It puts the layers as individual graphics +metadata into the zip (which is riskier than a PDN.zip. I would even have to find out which layers graphics format is original PDN, is it ARGB?)

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15 hours ago, Rick Brewster said:

You can use Alt + Page Up/Down to move between layers

ok, but it does not toggle the visibility of the layers, and there is no shortcut for the layer visibility. Alt+PageUp/Down does therefore not help to compare the effect that a layer on the image has. It would be desirable.

 

How about Alt +Ctrl + Pageup/down for the cumulative effect, ALT+Shift+Pageup/down for the exclusive effect? (suggestion 3 in the original post)

Edited by Peter1
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No, I won't be adding special-purpose shortcut keys like that. A shortcut to toggle the visibility makes sense though, and may be added at some point.

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2 hours ago, Peter1 said:

ok, but it does not toggle the visibility of the layers, and there is no shortcut for the layer visibility. Alt+PageUp/Down does therefore not help to compare the effect that a layer on the image has. It would be desirable.

 

How about Alt +Ctrl + Pageup/down for the cumulative effect, ALT+Shift+Pageup/down for the exclusive effect? (suggestion 3 in the original post)

 

1 hour ago, Rick Brewster said:

No, I won't be adding special-purpose shortcut keys like that. A shortcut to toggle the visibility makes sense though, and may be added at some point.

 

Alt+PageUp/PageDown by itself simply does nothing, or nearly nothing (maybe for copy-paste, but the keys are not nearby). Flipping forward and backward thru two or more layers, and seeing the visible effect would help me (without diverting the eyes to the Layers window)

 

But I'm new and my previous serious drawing experience dates to MacDraw. In the last two weeks I did draw again, using Paint.Net

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23 hours ago, Rick Brewster said:

You can use Alt + Page Up/Down to move between layers

 

This and Ctrl + Alt + Page Up/Down are missing from one section of the the Keyboard & Mouse Input page of the docs (they're in the Layers Window section, but not Layers Window). I've flagged them for inclusion in the next revision.

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1 hour ago, Ego Eram Reputo said:

 

This and Ctrl + Alt + Page Up/Down are missing from one section of the the Keyboard & Mouse Input page of the docs (they're in the Layers Window section, but not Layers Window). I've flagged them for inclusion in the next revision.

what is Ctrl+Alt+ Pageup/down doing?

 

+or alternatively, how do I go to the help/manuals from either the forum or from the paint.net home page?

 

++ They are in Layers Menu section, but neither the Layers Window page, nor the Layers Window section.

Edited by Peter1
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48 minutes ago, Peter1 said:

+or alternatively, how do I go to the help/manuals from either the forum or from the paint.net home page?

 

Just press F1 from within the app (Help -> Documentation)

 

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13 hours ago, Peter1 said:

There is only one, named ImZIP.FileType, and it does not save the current PDN into a zip, which I would need. It puts the layers as individual graphics +metadata into the zip (which is riskier than a PDN.zip. I would even have to find out which layers graphics format is original PDN, is it ARGB?)

That's exactly what a .pdn files contains. All layers and the layer attributes (plus a preview image needed for thumbnail in Explorer).

Why would you be interested in the internal format if you just use it as backup. The important thing is that you can restore your pdn work at any time.

Just save as zip and load it back.

 

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3 hours ago, BoltBait said:

FYI, Photoshop uses Control + “,” (comma) (in Windows) to toggle the visibility of the currently selected layer.

 

I'll look at this for 4.3.8. It could be super easy to squeeze in, but if there's much risk involved then I'd want to delay it to 4.4 so it could get a full range of testing (alpha, beta, etc.). Sometimes adding a keyboard command means it can be easy for it to overlap with other commands and cause weird behavior or crashes, but that's not always the case.

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7 hours ago, Rick Brewster said:

 

Just press F1 from within the app (Help -> Documentation)

 

image.png

oh, this was known before I asked, but I do have to start the app (and have it installed there, in case), and it would be fn+F1 (on my laptop).

 

outside the app, from the website (without anything extra like bookmarks and so on), for example when I was writing on a forum post regarding alt-PgUp?

 

Just from the site's menu bar, between Screenshots and Forum? The Docs are not linked at any place, near Tutorials, near Forum, where a newbie (or a prof) could expect them. Please add them somewhere on the "Home" page. Great thanks.

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6 hours ago, midora said:

That's exactly what a .pdn files contains. All layers and the layer attributes (plus a preview image needed for thumbnail in Explorer).

Why would you be interested in the internal format if you just use it as backup. The important thing is that you can restore your pdn work at any time.

Just save as zip and load it back.

 

Is it robust against future changes in the PDN contents?

 

and regarding internal/external it would be the other way around. With ImZIP I do have to be interested in the internal format, four possible versions of it, to make it work as a backup.

 

When I use ImZIP as backup, I do get access to the internal format (and do have to choose which one for a mostly true backup), but when I save a PDN and do a manual ZIP, I do not see the internals. My suggestion is to avoid the manual zip, but putting a PDN into a ZIP. In addition to the layers backup. Thanks.

(I wanted to PM but couldn't, and was preparing a snail mail instead).

Edited by Peter1
english.
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4 hours ago, Rick Brewster said:

I'll look at this for 4.3.8. It could be super easy to squeeze in, but if there's much risk involved then I'd want to delay it to 4.4 so it could get a full range of testing (alpha, beta, etc.). Sometimes adding a keyboard command means it can be easy for it to overlap with other commands and cause weird behavior or crashes, but that's not always the case.

 

Please have in mind that there are different keyboard layouts. I's already an issue that ctrl++ is not working on a lot of keyboards.

Supporting special characters should always be implemented by figuring out which key combination produces the key on the current keyboard layout. That's not so difficult.

 

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55 minutes ago, Peter1 said:

Is it robust against future changes in the PDN contents?

 

If Rick decides to store more information in the pdn file then the plugin must be adapted (no surprise).

 

You may also save as .ora that's zip based too.

 

You can also save as pdn in a watched folder and write a script which reacts on changes to the folder and copies away a zipped file. You can also create diff files this way.

 

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3 hours ago, midora said:

 

Please have in mind that there are different keyboard layouts. I's already an issue that ctrl++ is not working on a lot of keyboards.

Supporting special characters should always be implemented by figuring out which key combination produces the key on the current keyboard layout. That's not so difficult.

 

on a cyrillic keyboard "," is shift-".", and they are one key to the right of our english or german "."

Edited by Peter1
english.
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1 hour ago, midora said:

 

If Rick decides to store more information in the pdn file then the plugin must be adapted (no surprise).

 

You may also save as .ora that's zip based too.

 

 ok, but I would like to have (by suggestion) the original PDN "made by Rick", already packaged as a zip.  (where I can extract the PDN from. With .ora I can't do that.)

 

if the PDN stream would be available, the surprise wouldn't be, and would work as backup The layers formats would still work kind of export of the individual layers.

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37 minutes ago, Peter1 said:

 ok, but I would like to have (by suggestion) the original PDN "made by Rick", already packaged as a zip.  (where I can extract the PDN from. With .ora I can't do that.)

 

if the PDN stream would be available, the surprise wouldn't be, and would work as backup The layers formats would still work kind of export of the individual layers.

You can rename .ora to .zip, then extract.

G'MIC Filter Developer

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46 minutes ago, Peter1 said:

 ok, but I would like to have (by suggestion) the original PDN "made by Rick", already packaged as a zip.  (where I can extract the PDN from. With .ora I can't do that.)

I'm still not sure exactly why you need all this, but I don't have any plans to add built-in ZIP support.

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