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Debate: McCain's New Running Mate!


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She's not married yet because she's 17.

And? If the parents were as supportive as the couple as the media is making it out to be, thats not a problem. But I guess that does go a short distance to explain it, so I guess I will accept that explanation unless any other evidence pops up.

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She's not married yet because she's 17.

And? If the parents were as supportive as the couple as the media is making it out to be, thats not a problem. But I guess that does go a short distance to explain it, so I guess I will accept that explanation unless any other evidence pops up.

Her mother wants to prohibit sex education in school...how weird is that?

McCain wants harder punishment for DUI but Paulin's husband was even sentenced for this for a short time in prison...

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On the original topic: I can only think this is blatant marketing. And on Obama:

"Gosh I'm so tired of devise exchange,

and I've got one or two things to say about change

Like the change we must change to the change we hold dear.

I really like change, have I made myself clear?"

He ought to use some synonyms... Let's hope he does.

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And why should anyone besides the electoral colleges care about the presidential election?

After all it is the electoral colleges that make the decisions, right?

Thats the way it was supposed to work according to the constitution. See we weren't meant to be a democracy, but a republic. The elerctoral college would be chosen by the states and/or people, and they would vote for the president. Today, however, the members of the electoral college all vote for whoever won the election in the state they are from, it makes it a bit more democratic. For example, if on election day the 52% of the state of Ohio voted for Obama then the members of the College that represented Ohio would all vote for Obama. Thats how Bush won even though more people voted for Kerry. He won the Big states that carried most the votes (like his home state of Texas) and so he won most of the electoral votes.

Edit: I find it ironic that you live in our nation's first capital and you don't know how the elections work. Nothing against you, I just think its ironic!

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I find it ironic how even though I live in a heavily political society (My town) surrounded by people talking about such subjects, I go to a church where they are always talking about politics in sermons and behind the scenes, I've seen and heard every single debate from the running peoples or whatever.. and yet I still have no idea what is going on in this debate, and didn't even know anybody other than obama up until a month ago.

Come to think of it, i dont think that's irony. just pure stupidity.

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And why should anyone besides the electoral colleges care about the presidential election?

After all it is the electoral colleges that make the decisions, right?

Thats the way it was supposed to work according to the constitution. See we weren't meant to be a democracy, but a republic. The elerctoral college would be chosen by the states and/or people, and they would vote for the president. Today, however, the members of the electoral college all vote for whoever won the election in the state they are from, it makes it a bit more democratic. For example, if on election day the 52% of the state of Ohio voted for Obama then the members of the College that represented Ohio would all vote for Obama. Thats how Bush won even though more people voted for Kerry. He won the Big states that carried most the votes (like his home state of Texas) and so he won most of the electoral votes.

Edit: I find it ironic that you live in our nation's first capital and you don't know how the elections work. Nothing against you, I just think its ironic!

Well yeah......

Since I'm in 8th grade I wouldn't know the complete intricacy of politics and elections.

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Since I'm in 8th grade I wouldn't know the complete intricacy of politics and elections.

Now I feel arrogant and dumb... Sorry, I didn't realize you were so young. That just goes to show, you never really know who you are talking to unless you kniw them IRL.

But I know a lot of adults who have no idea what is going on. I was surprised that in my family I was the first of my generation to graduate... Our nation is in decline, and so our government, since it is elected by the people, is also in decline. Woe, America the Great has fallen, and no one can help us back up but ourselves!

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Since I'm in 8th grade I wouldn't know the complete intricacy of politics and elections.

Now I feel arrogant and dumb... Sorry, I didn't realize you were so young. That just goes to show, you never really know who you are talking to unless you kniw them IRL.

But I know a lot of adults who have no idea what is going on. I was surprised that in my family I was the first of my generation to graduate... Our nation is in decline, and so our government, since it is elected by the people, is also in decline. Woe, America the Great has fallen, and no one can help us back up but ourselves!

That's a rather large logical leap you make there, from your family to the entire USA. What do you think the sample accuracy rate would be for a group that small? +/- 90%?

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That's a rather large logical leap you make there, from your family to the entire USA. What do you think the sample accuracy rate would be for a group that small? +/- 90%?

I know a lot of people who aren't in my family that's like that. I only used it as an example. Not only do I go by my personal experience, but I remember reading about it in the newspaper a while back, too, how our graduation and literacy rates are dropping in the USA. Has been for a while, and its speeding up too. People will point to out military might to say that we are as strong as we ever have been, but Rome was pretty strong militarily mere decades before its fall.

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Yeah, Barnold, your argument about the relative political awareness of Americans based upon your family holds no water. I have a very different view from where I sit, as well as many of the people I know (because people who are alike tend to stick together).

The fact is, if people didn't know/care about the election, CNN, MSNBC, The Daily Show, etc. would be broke right now, because no one would watch them. But they are making money hand over fist- I think they win. :-)

 

The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
Amy: But how did it end up in there?
The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.
River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him.

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Yeah, Barnold, your argument about the relative political awareness of Americans based upon your family holds no water. I have a very different view from where I sit, as well as many of the people I know (because people who are alike tend to stick together).

The fact is, if people didn't know/care about the election, CNN, MSNBC, The Daily Show, etc. would be broke right now, because no one would watch them. But they are making money hand over fist- I think they win. :-)

I'm not saying people don't care about the election, obviously they do. This is a very historic election, regardless of which party wins.

What I am saying is that the illiteracy rates are going up, and misinformation is going around a lot faster than true information a lot more than it used to.

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Fair enough. :-)

 

The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
Amy: But how did it end up in there?
The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.
River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him.

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I love Sarah Palin's no-BS, straight-to-the-point attitude. It reminds me of Roslin's. ^_^

Oh, and she rides a Harley. Win!

(doesn't mean I'm voting for McCain, though)

Wow she's so hardxcore. :D

And even if I could vote, I STILL wouldnt vote for here.

She seemed to brash on tv last night.

Now Biden's rough, but she seems like..........the abomination of babylon.

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I respected McCain, for he was the first republican in a while that didn't pander to the Christian Right. But now, thats exactly what his choosing Palin was. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/0 ... 23205.html She is one of the most fundamentalist Christians in the USA today. She believes the war in Iraq is a holy war ordained by God and Jesus Christ. Do we want someone in office, a potential president, who believes in the concept of holy war? It makes her- and the USA, if she gets control- just as bad as bin Laden and other Islamic extremists!

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I don't see anything in that article about her saying it was a holy war ordained by God. I see a lot of discussion about how she relies strongly upon God's will to make decisions- which is a good thing, when you realize that her God (and mine) is one who says that we should love our enemies, one who emphasizes battle only when necessary, and one who places preeminence upon the virtue of honesty.

Fundamentalist Christianity has nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism. I'm a fundamentalist Christian, and I would imagine that this is probably the first time anyone on this forum has ever heard me say that. :-) I'm concerned with the lives of the men and women on both sides of the battle in Iraq, and I'm equally concerned with the environment - I just happen to disagree with some of the methods put forth by environmentalists to "solve" the problem. Stereotyping is not helpful in the slightest here, especially since the stereotype you're implying doesn't exist in reality (as with most stereotypes); it's an overgeneralization and exaggeration of a radical few who represent no views of the majority.

Christians have become an easy scapegoat recently, but keep in mind that even though we may have unpopular views, we're still valid candidates for office. What principles would you run a political office under? Sarah Palin has principles, too. They just happen to be different than yours. Let's try to keep an open mind here. :-)

That said, I'm still not sure about the McCain/Palin ticket. I'm thinking that Obama/Biden's focus on Change is going to lead the whole nation into a bunch of trouble (as change for change's sake is worthless at best and disastrous at worst), and now McCain is climbing the Change platform, too. I want change, but I don't want the word change thrown around without some real examples about how it can be accomplished.

 

The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
Amy: But how did it end up in there?
The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.
River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him.

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Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [u.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God,
see a lot of discussion about how she relies strongly upon God's will to make decisions- which is a good thing, when you realize that her God (and mine) is one who says that we should love our enemies, one who emphasizes battle only when necessary, and one who places preeminence upon the virtue of honesty.

In one set of scriptures, yes. In other scriptures, he's a vengeful god whose hatred burns great against those who sin against his law. I don't want a leader relying upon the will of a God who has mood swings worse than my pregnant fiancee (and she is bad!) Do you remember the story of two whose cities destroyed? How about the entire earth except for one family? What about this god commanding 7 nations (the 7 nations of Canaan) utterly destroyed?

Go ahead and say that thats the old testament, as many Christians do. But the Bible says God does not change. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. That was said by Peter, one of the early church leaders.

And what about those who worship another god, or no god at all? Why should they have their national affairs determined by a god that they do not believe in. Or what about the Christians that disagree with others what God's will is? There are so many people saying what god's will is, why should we listen to one sect and not another?

There is a reason this country was founded upon the separation of church and state. There's a reason our founding fathers wanted religion and politics separate.

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Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [u.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God,

My apologies; I didn't see that. Granted, the task of a nation's defense is set out by God. But I understand what you mean. However, in thinking about this, I don't think it's as big a deal as you may think it is.

see a lot of discussion about how she relies strongly upon God's will to make decisions- which is a good thing, when you realize that her God (and mine) is one who says that we should love our enemies, one who emphasizes battle only when necessary, and one who places preeminence upon the virtue of honesty.

In one set of scriptures, yes. In other scriptures, he's a vengeful god whose hatred burns great against those who sin against his law. I don't want a leader relying upon the will of a God who has mood swings worse than my pregnant fiancee (and she is bad!) Do you remember the story of two whose cities destroyed? How about the entire earth except for one family? What about this god commanding 7 nations (the 7 nations of Canaan) utterly destroyed?

Go ahead and say that thats the old testament, as many Christians do. But the Bible says God does not change. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. That was said by Peter, one of the early church leaders.

This is a political discussion, not a religious discussion, so I'll be succinct; I'm not going to say that's the old testament. And I do caution you of the dangerous ground you're on to suggest that God has mood swings, as he patently does not (as you noted, Peter called God "the same" for all time). Yes, He is the same throughout eternity. I agree with that. He is still the same resolute God that He has always been. Therefore, the question isn't "why did he do such violent things?" but "why isn't he doing such violent things now?" The world is no less sinful than it was in the Old Testament. I think that God is being incredibly loving to allow us to live at all, since we have all turned away from Him, denied His existence, and violated His law.

And what about those who worship another god, or no god at all? Why should they have their national affairs determined by a god that they do not believe in. Or what about the Christians that disagree with others what God's will is? There are so many people saying what god's will is, why should we listen to one sect and not another?

Aha, now we have the crux of the issue. See, the problem with this argument is that you're making the assumption that she will make policy decisions that do not make sense from a secular viewpoint, but do make sense from a religious viewpoint. Tell me this: why do you think that is true? When have you known a governmental leader, no matter how dedicated to their faith, to make their decisions based so solely on the Bible that they make no earthly sense? And how long have these decisions lasted?

We all have a set of morals, a code of ethics, a line of reasoning that goes beyond ourselves, that we use in the decisions we make each day. Hers (and mine) are those given by God; yours may be a code of ethics instilled by your parents, or a line of morals you've developed through careful thought and reasoning. One might as well ask you why you wish to force them upon us as we upon you.

There is a reason this country was founded upon the separation of church and state. There's a reason our founding fathers wanted religion and politics separate.

Actually, the "separation of church and state" appears in no government documents until 1878. It doesn't even appear in anything until Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists in 1802 to assure them that the First Amendment meant Methodists in government would not be passing laws to force the Baptists to change their rituals. So, then, it was established to keep the government out of the church- not the other way around. If you have deeply held religious convictions, how can you possibly be trusted if you go against them in ruling the nation?

The First Amendment of the United States Constitution assures that Congress may make no law respecting the establishment of religion or the free exercise thereof. We have freedom to worship as we choose (or not worship as we choose), to conduct our lives as we see fit, to vote our beliefs, and to be unhindered in this exercise by the Government.

Now, do I want a theocracy? Heavens, no (pun intended). But if I elect a president (or vice president), I want them to stay true to the ideals and morals they cling to- anything less would be lying. There's a system of checks and balances in place to ensure that this won't adversely effect my freedoms. And that is why I believe you're blowing things a bit out of proportion.

EDIT: And, yes, I would say this if she were a Muslim, Hindu, Atheist, or Buddhist. So hush. :-)

 

The Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior... A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
Amy: But how did it end up in there?
The Doctor: You know fairy tales. A good wizard tricked it.
River Song: I hate good wizards in fairy tales; they always turn out to be him.

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Religion, or (in my case) the lack of it, should be a private matter. Since there are so many people who worship a different god, or no god at all, national policy should not be determined by religion. What secular sense does it make to deny gay couples the same rights as heterosexual couples, namely the right to marry? It only makes sense from a religious viewpoint, that homosexuality is an abomination to God. But some people's god doesn't care who you fall in love with, have sex with, or marry. Others, who don't believe in a god, have no problem with it. If its against your religion, don't do it. But don't force that upon others.

As for the separation of church and state not being in the constitution, it is there. It just doesn't go by that name. Its kinda like the Trinity. The word "Trinity" is no where in the Bible. But the idea is present.

Anyways, we have strayed from the OP. I suggest we start a new topic on the separation of Church and state, and go back to the original topic.

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Odd that this is OUR God's war, when we are probably the country with the most Atheist.

But since she believes this is God's war, if McCain were to be elected president and die, doesn't it seem like she'd let the soldiers fight it out, not look for an end of it.

Honestly, after all, we shouldn't be in Iraq after all.

We went to look for non-existent "Weapons of Mass Destruction", didn't find any, convicted and hung their dictator, the only form of stability in their government.

After all, didn't this insurgency stuff happen AFTER we removed Sadaam from office?

He may have been a dictator, but he had Iraq under control.

So basically we started problems just to try to end them.

Getting back on point, we have an over-patriotic Republican, and a misguided VP pick, who thinks this is a holy war.

So Democrat or Independent, and any other participating parties?

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Odd that this is OUR God's war, when we are probably the country with the most Atheist.

If wikipedia is correct I personally doubt that.

Wikipedia: Main religious preferences of Americans[/url]":1hxbagg8]
  • [*:1hxbagg8]Christian: (78.5%)
    [*:1hxbagg8]Protestant (51.3%)
    [*:1hxbagg8]Roman Catholic (23.9%)
    [*:1hxbagg8]Mormon (1.7%)
    [*:1hxbagg8]other Christian (1.6%)
    [*:1hxbagg8]unaffiliated (12.1%)
    [*:1hxbagg8]none (4%)
    [*:1hxbagg8]other or unspecified (2.5%)
    [*:1hxbagg8]Jewish (1.7%)
    [*:1hxbagg8]Buddhist (0.7%)
    [*:1hxbagg8]Muslim (0.6%)

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After all, didn't this insurgency stuff happen AFTER we removed Sadaam from office?

He may have been a dictator, but he had Iraq under control.

That's quite possibly the worst justification of Sadaam's rule I've ever heard. "Sadaam may have used chemical weapons against his own countrymen, but at least innocent people weren't being killed." That makes me sick. Can you honestly say Iraq is worse off now then before?

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