anderpainter

Please add your support: Persistent dialog box positions!

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Like many of you, I've enjoyed PN for a long time. But it's always had one quirk I've found distracting and time-consuming: Whenever you open a dialog box, it appears right the middle of the screen, covering your work. Before you can continue, you must stop and drag the box out of the way to see what you're doing—even during the same session, when it should be quite clear where you'd like that box to be.

 

I couldn't understand why PN's developers overlooked this basic functionality. Since the early '90s, the great advantage of floating controls has been the ability to place them where they worked best for you. Why would PN's developers unnecessarily interrupt and slow down their users that way?

 

I've made several appeals over the years to add an optional setting to PN for it to "remember" the positions of its dialog boxes between sessions. But for some inexplicable reason, they still open smack in the middle of the editing area. Each. Time. You. Use. Them.

 

PN users, will you please chime in here and add your support for an optional setting for persistent dialog-box positions between sessions?

 

Again, please note that this would be an optional setting. If any of you actually like having dialog boxes open in the middle of your work, nothing must change for you—this option would be just for those of us who wanted it.

 

Thanks very much for supporting this considerable improvement in PN's usability!

 

Programming notes—non-geeks can stop reading here. 😉

 

Have PN keep an in-memory list of each dialog box's position (x and y values), starting with a default list with each box in the center. When the user changes a box's position, PN changes that box's coordinates in the list. When the user exits, PN records the list (in a registry setting or config file), including the current screen resolution.

 

On next run, PN checks for a position list for the current resolution. If it finds one, it loads and uses it. If it doesn't, it starts with another default list (all center). When the user changes a box's position at that resolution, PN changes it in the in-memory list; then on exit, it saves the list for that resolution. This prevents the possibility of boxes opening off-screen if the resolution is changed between sessions.

 

box_in_middle.jpg

Edited by anderpainter

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8 hours ago, anderpainter said:

PN users, will you please chime in here and add your support to adding an optional setting for PN's dialog boxes to "remember" their positions between sessions?

 

As a long-time user of PDN, I say, "Nah."  Just click and drag, it is already 2nd nature to me.

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In theory I get people wanting it.  On small canvases possibly a benefit to save a second or two

 

On large canvases ... oh, I've docked the UI to the left and can't see my work area to work on that side ... gosh, I'll have to move the UI, I wish it were in the centre ... 

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This is currently possible. It is up to the individual plugin authors to implement it. 
 

I guess I could come up with a code template... I’ll look at it over the weekend. 
 

I have some code worked out that I never ended up using that caused all of my plugins to open in the upper left corner of the Paint.NET window. It wasn’t as nice as you might think, so I dropped it. 

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1 hour ago, BoltBait said:

that caused all of my plugins to open in the upper left corner of the Paint.NET window.

 

If authors decided to put that code in, would it only be one set position,  or would it be customisable for the individual to decide positioning ?

 

I'm with the middle for diddle brigade on this

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8 hours ago, TrevorOutlaw said:

 

As a long-time user of PDN, I say, "Nah."  Just click and drag, it is already 2nd nature to me.

 

You must've missed this part of my post:

 

16 hours ago, anderpainter said:

PN users, will you please chime in here and add your support for an optional setting for persistent dialog-box positions between sessions? ... Again, please note that this would be an optional setting. If any of you actually like having dialog boxes open in the middle of your work, nothing must change for you—this option would be just for those of us who wanted it.

 

It didn't say, "Please tell us why you think everyone should use PN the way you use it." If you wish, I'll be glad to start a different forum topic where people can tell everyone why they think other people should be just like them. (Oh, wait—we actually have a president like that now, don't we? 😁 )

 

3 hours ago, welshblue said:

In theory I get people wanting it.  On small canvases possibly a benefit to save a second or two...

 

It's more than just time! It's the introduction of repetitive, unnecessary tasks when you're trying to focus on creative work often involving fine detail.

 

It baffles me why anyone would want boxes popping up right in the middle of their work when they're trying to pay attention to it. Nonetheless, I've made it as clear as I possibly could: I'm not asking everyone if this would make a difference to them. If you like being interrupted, that's great! I'm simply requesting an optional setting for those of us who like PN, but would prefer not to be repetitively interrupted when we use it.

 

3 hours ago, BoltBait said:

This is currently possible. It is up to the individual plugin authors to implement it... I guess I could come up with a code template... I’ll look at it over the weekend...

 

I'd sure appreciate that—thank you!

 

2 hours ago, welshblue said:

 

If authors decided to put that code in, would it only be one set position,  or would it be customisable for the individual to decide positioning ?

 

I'm with the middle for diddle brigade on this

 

(1.) For the last 30 years, it's been a standard, virtually universal feature of editing software—graphics editors, audio and video editors, desktop publishing apps, even word processors—to "remember" where users place their dialog boxes, and to reopen them in the same places. It's the primary reason "floating" controls were created: Not so you could move them out of the way over and over, but so you could place them where you wanted them, the way you can arrange objects on a real desktop, or tools on a workbench.

 

(2.) Please, guys—this isn't a survey. If you don't care about this, that's fine, but please don't waste everyone's time telling us how "meh" you are about it, or why you don't care about it (or why you think everyone should be like you, LOL!). If you do care about this, please add your support here. That's all I'm asking.

 

I should also point out that, despite its eccentric, GUI-philosophy-defying behaviour, I like PN so much I use it anyway! So I hope PN's developers will consider it a compliment that I'm working so hard here to improve it by requesting this optional setting.

 

BTW, did I mention that no one would have to use this setting who didn't want to, because it would be optional ("left to one's discretion; not compulsory")? That it'd just be something considerate to do for the people who wanted this "feature" (which, again, in practically any other editor, wouldn't be given a second thought—much less have to be campaigned for)?

 

I wanted to be sure to be clear about that. Again, it'd be optional (not required), so you needn't tell everyone why you don't want it. Right? Okay! Thanks!  😁

Edited by anderpainter

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Sorry, I have nothing to say about Window Positions, but ...

 

43 minutes ago, anderpainter said:

If you wish, I'll be glad to start a different forum topic where people can tell everyone why they think other people should be just like them.

 

Now that sounds interesting. Please start that in the Grand Theory of Everything. It could be very insightful, or at least entertaining.

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47 minutes ago, anderpainter said:

If you wish, I'll be glad to start a different forum topic where people can tell everyone why they think other people should be just like them.

 

4 minutes ago, toe_head2001 said:

Now that sounds interesting. Please start that in the Grand Theory of Everything. It could be very insightful, or at least entertaining.

 

I know it sounds crazy, but there are actually lots of websites where people try to tell other people how they should be required to think, live or work!

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1 minute ago, anderpainter said:

... how they should be required to ...

 

Ok, but that's not the same thing you said earlier.  I don't care if people think I should be required to do something.  I care why they think I should do something of my freewill and choice.

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@anderpainter i get why you're requesting this, but I also stand by my thought that no matter the positioning it will still be in the way sometime 

 

As for telling others how to live their lives ... I've spent years teaching kids to do the opposite of how I've lived mine.  Even though it was fun at the time 😇

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Is buying a new monitor is a viable option for some PDN users? I just had to ask because it seem like there could be a workaround from a theoretical point of view. That's not talking in practice though.

Edited by Reptillian

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Elsewhere I suggested the ability to dock effect dialogs to a set position in the main editing window. Options would be left, middle, right and top, middle & bottom. This would give the user nine placement options.

 

I might have a go a coding up a demo plugin this weekend to see if it works (if BoltBait doesn't beat me to it).

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Come on, guys... Must I start a new topic just to avoid all this distracting, irrelevant gab?

This topic's purpose is very simple:

  • I've explained why, for years, I've wished PN had persistent dialog box positions (like every other graphics editor in the known universe).
  • I've asked PN users who also want this option to add their support. (Maybe I'm naive, but it seems to me the more users who request a feature, the more likely it may be added.)
  • Because I'm proposing an optional feature—one that would not be activated by default, but must be activated by each user—there is no point cluttering this topic with talk about why you don't think the feature is necessary, why you wouldn't use it, etc.

If you're not interested in this proposed optional setting, this topic doesn't apply to you—so please stop posting here! Thanks!

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Rick doesn’t add features strictly by popular vote. He prefers a lively discussion that results in a well thought out design. 
 

Also, you should be aware that several people in this thread also have the ability to contribute to the source code... so, be nice. 

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At the risk of incurring the wrath of the OP ...

 

9 hours ago, Reptillian said:

Is buying a new monitor is a viable option for some PDN users?

 

Theoretically I'd need to buy a 55" monitor (at least) for some projects ... and still a UI would have to be moved sometimes

Do you know how many pairs of shoes I'd have to buy for the wife, for her to allow me to spend those £££'s for a decent one 😐

 

11 hours ago, anderpainter said:

 It's the introduction of repetitive, unnecessary tasks when you're trying to focus on creative work often involving fine detail.

 

It baffles me why anyone would want boxes popping up right in the middle of their work when they're trying to pay attention to it. If you like being interrupted, that's great , but would prefer not to be repetitively interrupted when we use it.

 

I spend approximately 30 hours + a week in PDN on client based/ my own work and never once felt interrupted or have the creative flow dry up because I've had to move a UI

 

*** That doesn't mean I don't sympathise with your request ... I get where you're coming from; I just honestly believe that no matter where the UI is, it will impact sometime, somehow on some users ?

 

(There's far more intelligent people here than me who I'm happy to be proved wrong by on that statement)

Edited by welshblue

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My 2 cents 😁 I often think, "Dang - I wish it didn't open in the middle of the canvas". :lol:

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3 hours ago, Pixey said:

I often think, "Dang - I wish it didn't open in the middle of the canvas". :lol:

 

:) Cosign. Dang is not what I think but all the rest, yeah...

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Programmatically, opening in the center of the screen is the safest place to put a dialog. Just sayin'

 

On 11/29/2019 at 6:19 PM, anderpainter said:

If you're not interested in this proposed optional setting, this topic doesn't apply to you—so please stop posting here! Thanks!

 

That's not how this forum works. You don't get to decide what happens and what doesn't. Everyone who has an opinion is free to post their thoughts.

 

Now, we can have a discussion about dialog placement, OR we can note your efforts to strong arm Rick into doing what you want, and lock the thread.

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I've been thinking about this today, laughing to myself when I had to move different UI's a lot of times

 

 ... dialogue windows could cartwheel in and randomly place themselves anywhere.   As long as Paint.net keeps improving as it is ... happy days

 

Out of curiosity EER

 

11 hours ago, Ego Eram Reputo said:

Programmatically, opening in the center of the screen is the safest place to put a dialog. Just sayin'

 

Don't bamboozle me too much with technical lingo ... but why so ?

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Plugins created with OptionBasedLibrary can remember the location so the next time you open the dialog, it will appear where you want it.

 

is5t5vT.png

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11 hours ago, welshblue said:

Out of curiosity EER

 

23 hours ago, Ego Eram Reputo said:

Programmatically, opening in the center of the screen is the safest place to put a dialog. Just sayin'

 

Don't bamboozle me too much with technical lingo ... but why so ?

 

@BoltBait answered this one quite recently....

 

https://forums.getpaint.net/topic/115410-effect-dialog-window-in-center-of-screen-resolved/?do=findComment&comment=564333

 

Before anyone says "that never happens..." I recall a user having trouble with the Shape3D, because S3D places the effect dialog on the second monitor (if there is one). If you turn your second monitor off - poof! No dialog! Yet PDN appears to be running fine on the first monitor.

 

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11 hours ago, Ego Eram Reputo said:

Before anyone says "that never happens..." I recall a user having trouble with the Shape3D, because S3D places the effect dialog on the second monitor (if there is one). If you turn your second monitor off - poof! No dialog! Yet PDN appears to be running fine on the first monitor.

 

This happened to me when I was having trouble with the Brush Factory not opening in the extended monitor window on my end, and when I reported it, I remember you trying to help me get that fixed.  Once Joshua released another version, that problem disappeared.

 

On 11/28/2019 at 4:35 PM, anderpainter said:

t didn't say, "Please tell us why you think everyone should use PN the way you use it." If you wish, I'll be glad to start a different forum topic where people can tell everyone why they think other people should be just like them.

 

I was going to post my own thoughts anyway.  I was planning to add a line where this would be up to the plug-in programmers to add those options, and they probably don't want to go through that trouble.  It is not easy to add a few lines of code just to make you happy and BoltBait confirmed it.  As I stated earlier, it is just easier to click and drag the window of the Effect, Adjustment, or plug-in windows to tweak with the setting.  It is second nature and I don't think about it at all.  If that bothers you, then...¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

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