Selecting anything with any colour in secondary colour slot leaves a void filled with a transparent version of that colour

[123seven3]

I really don't know how else to say this in a sentence, but here's the gist.  When I make a selection of any kind, while there is any colour in my secondary colour slot, then move that selected section elsewhere, the color in the spot where the selection was lifted from is changed from the standard 255/255/255 white transparent to a transparent version of whatever colour is in the secondary colour slot.  So like, transparent green, or purple, or whatever.

 

This has the unfortunate effect of causing the magic wand to decide the colours are different (with 0% tolerance), and leaves dozens of artifacts behind whenever I've been working on creating frames for my pixel animation.

 

This has been driving me absolutely insane for the past few months.

[Pixey]

Hello @123seven3 and Welcome to the forum

 

I have moved this to the Paint.NET discussion and Questions Thread.

 

I really can't make out what you are doing, except to say that it sounds like you are 'cutting' out a piece from an image and then moving it?  If that's the case, then you will be left with a transparent area which is normal when cutting.

 

If you can take a screen shot of what you are doing, that would be of help.

[AndrewDavid]

Morning @Pixey 

Easily reproducible. Surprised too that no one has noticed this to date.

Change your secondary color to something other than white.

Create a selection and move it anywhere.

You will see the remaining blank space has been filled with transparency of your secondary color.

If this is intended behavior the OP will be glad to hear.

If Not - @Rick Brewster will be interested in this.

Here's a screenshot of what is happening.

After moving selection, color picker was used to display new transparency based on whatever secondary color is selected.

When exported to other apps this causes the OP to see unwanted artifacts.

Hope this clarifies

 

 

[Pixey]

@AndrewDavid - Nope, I can't reproduce that 😨 I must be having a blonde moment!

[lynxster4]

That's interesting @AndrewDavid   I was able to reproduce it.

 

@Pixey  after you make a selection and move it to expose the 'transparent' canvas, select your color picker tool and click on the transparent area.

It registers as the secondary color with an opacity of '0'.  I could see how it could leave behind artifacts.

Edited January 24, 2019 by lynxster4

[HyReZ]

@Pixey

I can't duplicated on my system either!

[toe_head2001]

Let me clear up the confusion for people unable to reproduce. Use the Move Selected Pixels tool; not the Move Selection tool.

 

Here's a workaround:

MJW created a plugin to change all transparent pixels to transparent black.

https://forums.getpaint.net/topic/111800-transparent-to-transparent-black/

 

[Pixey]

5 minutes ago, lynxster4 said:

That's interesting @AndrewDavid   I was able to reproduce it.

 

@Pixey  after you make a selection and move it to expose the 'transparent' canvas, select your color picker tool and click on the transparent area.

It registers as the color you moved with an opacity of '0'.  I could see how it could leave behind artifacts.

 

Yes, but surely you are clicking on a transparent area which is going to register 0%

 

[Pixey]

2 minutes ago, toe_head2001 said:

Let me clear up the confusion for people unable to reproduce. Use the Move Selected Pixels tool; not the Move Selection tool.

 

Here's a workaround:

MJW created a plugin to change all transparent pixels to transparent black.

https://forums.getpaint.net/topic/111800-transparent-to-transparent-black/

 

 

Yes, I used Move Selected Pixels as Move Selection tool doesn't leave a transparent area

[123seven3]

Hang on, I'll make a video

[lynxster4]

1 minute ago, Pixey said:

Yes, but surely you are clicking on a transparent area which is going to register 0%

 

Yes, but look at the color wheel. It is 0% of your secondary color that you chose.  That could leave artifacts.

 

@toe_head2001's recommendation seems to be the best.

[Pixey]

3 minutes ago, lynxster4 said:

 

Yes, but look at the color wheel. It is 0% of your secondary color that you chose.  That could leave artifacts.

 

 Won't that depend on whether you have the secondary color selected, or the primary color.

 

Golly this is getting confusing 😂

[123seven3]

https://youtu.be/-YBG9WnCBCw  Alright, here it is.

[lynxster4]

1 minute ago, Pixey said:

Golly this is getting confusing 😂

 

I agree!  

[123seven3]

So I just checked (should have done this in the video) but the tolerance changes nothing until it is raised above 4%

[lynxster4]

4 minutes ago, 123seven3 said:

Alright, here it is.

 

My tolerance was set to 50%.  Don't know why it that does that.  Someone more knowledgable may know.

Edited January 24, 2019 by lynxster4

[Pixey]

OK I've viewed the video and all I can say is that I see no color at all, as every time you click on something everything is transparent!  You have everything turned down to total transparency, so me thinks you are just clicking on 'nothing'.  Boy, I'm feeling an extra shade of blonde today 😁😂

[123seven3]

1 minute ago, Pixey said:

OK I've viewed the video and all I can say is that I see no color at all, as every time you click on something everything is transparent!  You have everything turned down to total transparency, so me thinks you are just clicking on 'nothing'.  Boy, I'm feeling an extra shade of blonde today 😁😂

 

Yeah, it's all transparent, but using the auto wand while tolerance is low selects all the *white* transparent, rather than including the *blue* transparent. (or vice versa)

Edited January 24, 2019 by 123seven3

[toe_head2001]

15 minutes ago, 123seven3 said:

Yeah, it's all transparent, but using the auto wand while tolerance is low selects all the *white* transparent, rather than including the *blue* transparent. (or vice versa)

 

Did you try the word-around I mentioned?

https://forums.getpaint.net/topic/111800-transparent-to-transparent-black/

[123seven3]

2 minutes ago, toe_head2001 said:

 

Did you try the word-around I mentioned?

https://forums.getpaint.net/topic/111800-transparent-to-transparent-black/

 

 

I'm absolutely going to use that, don't you worry.  I just want to make sure I've done everything I can here, you know?

[MJW]

To make things a bit easier, I added a Transparent to Transparent White adjustment. Transparent white is Paint.NET's normal transparent color, so if the only object is to make all transparent pixels equal, it's probably the best choice.

[Rick Brewster]

This is intentional, but it's also based on a veeeeeeerrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyy old design decision dating back to 2004, I think. I'm willing to revisit it, and it's a trivial code change.

 

Another work around is as such:

 

1. Create a new layer below the layer you want to have alpha-normalized.

2. Fill the layer with transparent black

3. Select the layer above (the one with actual content)

4. Click on Merge Layer Down

 

This takes advantage of how the layer compositing works: if the top layer has a pixel value of {alpha=0, RGB=anything}, then the resulting layer's pixel will be equal to {alpha=0, RGB=whatever was on the bottom layer}. This is actually the most efficient way to do things: while the source layer has pixels who's alpha is zero, just skip past them and don't write anything new to the composition buffer because it already has the contents of the bottom layer, which already has alpha=0.

[Rick Brewster]

The other thing you're bumping into is the fact that the Magic Wand tool does not use the premultiplied alpha space when doing its boundary calculations. This is something I"ve got a bug filed for as well -- I think doing the calculations in "straight" alpha space is the more niche scenario. Transparent is transparent is transparent ... usually.