paint.net 4.0.21 is slow to start

[maxgoof]

4.0.21 has a problem starting up. It goes into a "not responding" mode that could take seconds to minutes to come out of, if it comes out at all.

It also has a horrible time starting when called from an image, meaning, if I double click on image.jpg it can take forever to start.

This never occurred before.

[Ego Eram Reputo]

<moved to PDN Discussions & Questions>

 

How many plugins have you got installed? The reason I ask is that having a large number of plugins slows startup significantly.

[BoltBait]

10 hours ago, maxgoof said:

It goes into a "not responding" mode that could take seconds to minutes to come out of

 

Perhaps your NGEN cache has been cleared.

 

Try reinstalling Paint.NET and see if that fixes the problem.

[maxgoof]

Regarding the number of plug-ins: I don't know. I have added no plug-ins beyond the ones that have come with paint.NET. I seriously doubt that is the problem, though, as I have added no new plug-ins since installing the new version, and this did not occur before that update.

I have re-installed the program. That did not solve the problem.

I've read other threads reporting similar problems, and frankly, it's like responders are trying to find sources for the problem outside of paint.NET. As an example, some have pointed to discord. Discord is a chat program, and really should have nothing in common with paint.NET. I actually went and unloaded discord (I never cared for it anyway) and that did not solve the problem.

Seriously, the problem is most likely in the latest build, since this did not occur with the previous version, and I am VERY tempted to find that version and re-installing it.

Edited March 12, 2018 by maxgoof
spelling error

[Ego Eram Reputo]

8 hours ago, maxgoof said:

As an example, some have pointed to discord. Discord is a chat program, and really should have nothing in common with paint.NET.

 

https://forums.getpaint.net/topic/112542-paintnet-crash-after-opening/?do=findComment&comment=543575

 

Pro-tip: In that post, Rick mentions Windows updates and NVidia drivers. Make sure all are up to date.

 

8 hours ago, maxgoof said:

and frankly, it's like responders are trying to find sources for the problem outside of paint.NET

 

We offer suggestions based on previous experience. Like my question about the number of plugins. The symptoms you mentioned are an exact duplicate of those found by plugin heavy systems.

 

Try this: Rename your Effects folder to something else, then restart paint.net. This will hide most of your plugins from paint.net when it starts. If startup is improved you've found a likely source of your problem.

[AndrewDavid]

22 hours ago, maxgoof said:

responders are trying to find sources for the problem outside of paint.NET. 

Hey @maxgoof

This is because 99.9% of the time the issue is with something outside of Paint.Net

 

With so many users around the world a bug doesn't get very far with @Rick Brewster always watching what's going on. When bugs are identified and are able to be reproduced they are fixed immediately. This goes for plugins as well if the author is still active.

 

To come here and say only you have the problem - I would look at your system first. You are the only one having the problem.

You have made no mention of your specs - what version of Windows you are running (hopefully fully up to date). 

 

A simple explanation is Paint relies heavily on the Microsoft .Net framework. If that is messed up in any way - that can cause unusually long startup times.

 

Once it is loaded - have you closed it and reopened it to see if it takes just as long the second time?

 

Give it a try and let us know what happens please 

[maxgoof]

Display adapter: Up to date

Version of Windows: Up to date.

No, I am NOT going to disable my plug-ins, because, as I said, I had no trouble with my plug-ins with the previous version. I simply CANNOT logically believe that if the plug-ins do not change that the sluggishness is caused by the plug-ins now, when it was not a problem before.

To claim that I must turn back flips to troubleshoot something that I KNOW can't be causing the problem is rather irritating, to be honest.

It's like calling tech support after you have done all the standard troubleshooting steps only to be told by then, "Well, have you tried turning it off and turning it back on again?" It's insulting.

 

[maxgoof]

BTW, just for your edification, yes, when I changed the name of the Effects directory, the program started right away.

HOWEVER...NONE of the effects are dated later than 2016, the size of the effect directory is only a tad over 1Mb, and as I said, previous versions of paint.net did NOT have this problem, and all of the plug-ins worked.

It only started with this latest version.

So, please, stop blaming the plug-ins and look at WHY paint.net chugs with plug-ins.

 

[toe_head2001]

To be fair, you submitted, what would be considered by many, to be a Level 1 "bug report / support query". Therefore, you got a Level 1 response.

I have tried paint.net v4.0.21 vs v4.0.20, and the time to fully open the program is the same 3.5 seconds.

 

If you really want the issue resolved (of course you do), you need to investigate the issue thoroughly (don't make assumptions), isolate the cause, and create a proper report.

Why is that so important? Because, beyond similar vague reports, no one here is experiencing the same issue as you. Beyond basic safe-guards, how can an engineer solve an issue that he/she can't see?

 
You mentioned that you have done all the standard troubleshooting steps, but didn't explicitly list them. So here are potentially few more you may not have done yet.

- Reinstall v4.0.20, and measure the time to fully open the program.

- Try running paint.net in Windows Safe Mode, and see if the issue persists there.

[BoltBait]

1 hour ago, maxgoof said:

BTW, just for your edification, yes, when I changed the name of the Effects directory, the program started right away.

 

Sounds like there is something in your Effects folder that is causing a problem.

 

Can you give us a screenshot of your Effects folder (including the window frame, address bar, etc.)?  Maybe someone in here can spot the problem file.

[Ego Eram Reputo]

2 hours ago, maxgoof said:

BTW, just for your edification, yes, when I changed the name of the Effects directory, the program started right away.

 

Easy wasn't it? As @BoltBait has said, you've probably got something in your Effects folder that shouldn't be there OR you have a huge number of plugins (you still haven't told us how many).

 

2 hours ago, maxgoof said:

HOWEVER...NONE of the effects are dated later than 2016, the size of the effect directory is only a tad over 1Mb, and as I said, previous versions of paint.net did NOT have this problem, and all of the plug-ins worked.

 

Stop prevaricating. We didn't ask for the age of the plugins or the size of the directory. Neither is important here. If you really want our help, try answering the questions we're asking:

 

1. How many plugins in the \Effect\ directory?

2. Show us a screenshot of the \Effects\ directory

 

 

[maxgoof]

And BOTH of you miss the point:

NONE of the plug-ins are recent. They ALL were there a year ago with the older version of paint.net. ALL of them.

And I had NO problem then. Nip. Zero. Nada.

Now, with this new version, it chugs.

And you blame the plug-ins???????

Here's the list, btw.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2018 by maxgoof
adding in plug-in list

[Ego Eram Reputo]

Is that all the files in \Effects\ or are there more (they may not be DLLs)?

[Rick Brewster]

This isn't about blame or fault. This is supposed to be about figuring out a solution.

[AndrewDavid]

@Rick Brewster

 

I know too well this issue with Win10

 

Could it be because these DLL's are not digitally signed by a certified source - Windows performs a series of validity checks on them before loading them into memory.

 

I imagine each one is run through that antimalware app to ensure they don't contain anything damaging.

 

The second execution of Paint.Net always loads immediately (within 2 Seconds).

 

I see this as because they have already been checked or they still reside in memory.

 

It is only the first time Paint.Net is started (after a fresh reboot or cold start) that this long loading process occurs.

 

Also - due to the fact that when plugins are removed - Paint.Net loads immediately as well. Its not an issue with Paint.Net - It's an issue with the DLL's

 

This should get things started in finding a solution 

[maxgoof]

1) Yes, those are all the files in that directory.

 

2) I'm not talking about blame, I'm trying to isolate where the problem is, and again and again, responders seem to be completely ignoring the possibility of a bug in the way paint.net handles the Effects directory.

3) Sorry, no. Disabling the Effects directory does NOT prove that paint.net is not the problem, for two reasons.

3a) As I already mentioned, I have added nothing to the Effects directory for over a year. Previous versions of paint.net did not have this problem.
3b) Is it not at all possible that the way paint.net is handling the Effects directory that could be the problem? Of course it could be.

Now, with regard to Windows 10 having to authenticate the dlls before allowing paint.net to load them, is there no way to tell Windows 10, "Hey, you already checked those ten times to Sunday. Stop checking them over and over."?

 

[AndrewDavid]

21 hours ago, maxgoof said:

is there no way to tell Windows 10, "Hey, you already checked those ten times to Sunday. Stop checking them over and over."?

It's called an exclusion rule in windows defender. I made one for the effects folder and reduced the load time by 90%.  Amazing. 

 

[maxgoof]

40 minutes ago, AndrewDavid said:

It's called an exclusion rule in windows defender. I made one for the effects folder and reduced the load time by 90%.  Amazing. 

 

Good! Now we're getting somewhere. How do I do that?

 

[AndrewDavid]

Let us know what effect it has in resolvng your issue. Worked great for me. 

 

https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/4028485/windows-10-add-an-exclusion-to-windows-defender-antivirus

[Rick Brewster]

I would advise employing a Windows Defender exclusion rule only for temporary troubleshooting.

 

While I can obviously vouch that Paint.NET doesn't have a virus, I can't vouch for plugins. We have seen bootleg plugin packs with a virus before.

 

Plus, things can get hacked. If Equifax and other big name companies can get hacked, then Paint.NET can't be 100% immune either. If that happens, it's better to have Windows Defender as a safety net. Or maybe an effect author's download page gets hacked and a virus is slipped in.

[AndrewDavid]

Just for clarification @Rick Brewster

 

On 16/03/2018 at 3:41 PM, Rick Brewster said:

This is supposed to be about figuring out a solution.

You're making it sound like I am turning off Defender. This is not the case. I just don't need Defender to run a virus check on the 500 files in the effects folder every time I start paint. The tradeoff with loading time is worth it. I will be very careful adding any NEW files to the effects folder now that the exclusion rule is in effect. When I download files - I always use my download folder to allow defender to have a look before installing or moving any files to any other folder. 

[patricktingen]

To add to the topic: I experienced exactly the same issues with Paint.net as MaxGoof: slow startup as of 4.0.21. I reinstalled Paint.net with only the standard plugins, nothing more, nothing less, but it did not resolve the problem. Only the first start is slow, any subsequent start is fast. Andrews idea sounds plausible so I added the exclusion rules to Defender and will see if that fixes things. 

[maxgoof]

Adding the Effects directory to the Defender exception list appears to have done the trick.

My question is, is this a change in Defender, Windows, or PDN that this only appeared after the installation of the latest version of PDN?

[Rick Brewster]

Nothing really changed in Paint.NET with respect to effect plugins.

[sashwilko]

On 20/03/2018 at 12:09 PM, AndrewDavid said:

Let us know what effect it has in resolvng your issue. Worked great for me. 

 

https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/4028485/windows-10-add-an-exclusion-to-windows-defender-antivirus

I can confirm that this has increased my PDN start up time 10 fold, thanks for the link @AndrewDavid