Ilias

Transparent selection function

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12 hours ago, ilias48rus said:

, control your ego

 

😃

 

I can't ... he's out of control.  

 

There's no need to be so rude and personal.  If I tried that here, I'm sure I'd get another slap on the wrist

Edited by welshblue

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13 hours ago, Ego Eram Reputo said:

 

No it doesn't. Paint.net copies from the layer (only) unless you're using Copy Merged (Ctrl + Shift + C).

 

How are you copying once the selection is made?

 

 

You're right, my bad.
I was mainly thinking about the transparent pixels in the selection and how they "errase" the content of your current layer which is annoying and there is no option to discard them "easilly", especially with a gradient to transparent.

2019-04-09_14-03-05.gif

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5 hours ago, TSi said:

You're right, my bad.
I was mainly thinking about the transparent pixels in the selection and how they "errase" the content of your current layer which is annoying and there is no option to discard them "easilly", especially with a gradient to transparent.

2019-04-09_14-03-05.gif

 

To do what you expect, after selecting your pixels press Ctrl+X to cut them and press Ctrl+Shift+V to past them into a new layer.

 

Then, you can move your selection around like you expect where the transparent pixels do not replace the pixels below.

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Just want to comment that this would be a useful feature. Everyone keeps getting caught up in the "this program vs. that program" debate, but I agree that OP's request is totally valid. As someone who uses paint.net constantly for artwork and utilizes the layer functionality all the time, the program should still always ignore transparency, no matter if its same layer or different layer. I actually always thought this was a bug in paint.net, not a conscious choice.

 

Perfect example: I make text for a piece of art on a new layer above the art. This layer is only text on top of transparency. I decide the default spacing is a bit much, so I want to bring the top word down a bit closer to the bottom word. You would expect that I could just box selection, slide it down, and since all the "negative space" is just transparency on this layer, I could slide it right up to the bottom word and the transparency would act as transparency. But instead, it overwrites the filled pixels with transparent pixels. Again, I thought that was a bug.

 

My two options are either to do a pixel perfect selection (either zoom in really close or ctrl-click with magic wand to individually select the letters) or select, copy, paste to new layer, merge layers. Again, I thought I was just doing a bizarre workaround for a bug this whole time, did not realize it was working as designed (my friend who works as a UI consultant would say, "then the design is bad").

 

Not trying to get anyone amped up to argue about the validity of this decision. Just stating that nearly every other program always treats transparency as transparency no matter what. That has become second nature for those of us utilizing multiple programs, and I don't see why you would ever want transparency to not be transparency. It's probably because of some deep rooted way that paint.net was coded to handle layers and it may not be fixable without completely rewriting that. And it doesn't really stop me from doing anything, but it does take something that should be a simple flick of the wrist into a 3+ step problem that has to be tackled every time it's encountered.

Edited by ZomBJ
clarity

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"Every other program" ? You'll have to be more specific. Paint.NET handles alpha just like Photoshop does.

 

In the example you gave with the text, you just have to cut the selected area and put it onto a new layer (Ctrl+Shift+X, then Ctrl+Shift+V, it's very easy), and then move it around. Your text is not "on top of" transparency, it is adjacent to it. Stop thinking of transparency as something that's "below" the colored pixels within the layer you're working on. Layers have pixels, and layers have a Z-order, but there's no faux-Z within the layer. Any other interpretation is wrong and you need to adjust your mental model to fit that.


Making things work the way you think it should work would break all sorts of other things. Like really, really badly.

 

I actually always thought this was a bug in paint.net

And now you know it's not. You've gained more understanding about how things work. Celebrate that instead of sticking to your guns that Paint.NET is "wrong".

 

I don't see why you would ever want transparency to not be transparency

See, that's the thing. Transparency is always transparency in Paint.NET. You just need to get your understanding of layers to be correct! There isn't "transparent" and then also "special transparent" within a selection, which is what you're asking for.

 

I've already said this many, many times over the last 15 years: this will not be changing. It is not a bug. It is 100% by intentional design and it is the 100% right way to do things. This issue is closed and will not be revisited, not now and not ever.

 

This reminds me of when we (as a civilization) adopted the heliocentric model of the solar system: the old way was just wrong, and fraught with all sorts of weird super-complicated corner cases (epicycles) that just seem downright silly now. Once you get past the stupidity of how MSPaint does things, and learn how the universe actually works, things are so much simpler and better -- and your toolkit becomes much more powerful.

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Also worth pointing out is that MSPaint can get away with this because it doesn't support any kind of alpha channel. So it can give special treatment in some cases and pretend that certain things are "transparent". But, this model only works if you don't have alpha, and you don't have layers, at which point you're completely boxed into a corner where you can only do very simple things. And that's a perfectly good niche for MSPaint, but its "transparent selection" is a relic of that overly simplistic design and it cannot be ported over to something like Paint.NET.

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Yes, of course you can save as PNG but you must save it as 32bit to preserve transparency.

 

If you have the PNG bit setting on Auto it will usually select the 24bit option. This does not support transparency and is probably why you're getting that message.

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2 hours ago, zafirkalvin said:

 I do have a question, am I able to save a PNG file? each time I try to save it, it states " Any transparency will be lost if you save this picture." forgive me in advance, I'm new to this stuff.

 

That's the error message from regular MSPaint.

 

That's not what happens in Paint.NET, which can save transparency just fine.

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^That would explain why I did not recognise  zafirkalvin's description of the error message.

 

But I was right about PDN's 24bit PNG save option not saving transparency, wasn't I?

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3 minutes ago, IHaveNoName said:

But I was right about PDN's 24bit PNG save option not saving transparency, wasn't I?

 

Yes.

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2 hours ago, IHaveNoName said:

 

^That would explain why I did not recognise  zafirkalvin's description of the error message.

 

But I was right about PDN's 24bit PNG save option not saving transparency, wasn't I?

 

Nothing can save a 24-bit PNG with transparency. You need 32-bits because it's 8-bits per component. The components are red, green, blue, and alpha (transparency). 24-bits only has r, g, b. 32-bits adds alpha into the mix.

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