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Ilias

Transparent selection function

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Hi, just want to make request to add the MS Paint 's "transparent selection" function to the great Paint.net,

because i readed topic about it which was before want to explain: deal here not in layers, actual transparency or anything like that,

just white color in paint is same as transparency and can say when you selecting and moving anything-- white pixels is like white and no color pixels (transparent) in same time and you can choose what they would be,

but point and coolness of the feature is in that what in a lot of workflows on that kind of editors background is white,

so the requested addition is "switchable 'do not move pixels with [255,255,255] color undependent to their alpha'",

that small feature would be  awesome and hugely work speed increasing in a lot of cases  functionality in the editor.

 

(Using chance want to say  thank you  to developers for their work on the editor, here it will replace MS Paint in its tasks to complete :) )


With respect

Ilias

Edited by Ilias

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Sorry, but Rick is not going to add this functionality into paint.net.  MS Paint uses this hack because they don't have layers.  Basically, you just need to learn how to manipulate your images using the full power of layers.

 

This may help you: https://www.getpaint.net/doc/latest/WorkingWithLayers.html

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Paint.net is not MS Paint. It is a great deal more powerful.

 

In paint.net the transparent areas are colored with a gray and white checkerboard pattern. This denotes transparency. Using the Magic Wand tool you can select transparent areas - just like and other color.

 

The trick I suspect you want is to not leave areas transparent, but to fill them with white. If so, simply create a new layer at the bottom of the layers stack (the list in the Layers Window) and fill this bottom layer with solid white.

 

The reason this works is that any other layers with transparent areas will allow the bottom layer (white) to show through.

 

[Ninja'd by BoltBait - but I'm posting anyway :P ]

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2 hours ago, Ego Eram Reputo said:

Oh, and welcome to the forum ilias :)

Thanks, but no, i didn't meant any changes to transparency handling in the program or actions with background colors in project, i offered as i said ability to switch "do not move pixels with [255,255,255,|any|] color" to selection tools, 

2 hours ago, BoltBait said:

So..

I do know how to use layers and they are main reason why probably going to use Pant.net instead of MS Paint, it doesn't anyhow connected to the addition, the enchantment is functionality for selection system, which can't be substituted with same working speed by layers system.

Edited by Ilias

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You can probably use the selection tools that already exist to do this.

 

For instance, you could select a rectangular area with the Rectangle select tool. And then in order to remove pixels of a certain color, use the Magic Wand tool with two things selected in the toolbar: Subtract, and Global. You could also do it in reverse: use Magic Wand tool with Normal mode and Global, and then use Rectangle select tool with Intersect mode in order to clip it.

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7 hours ago, Rick Brewster said:

You can probably use the selection tools that already exist to do this.

 

For instance, you could select a rectangular area with the Rectangle select tool. And then in order to remove pixels of a certain color, use the Magic Wand tool with two things selected in the toolbar: Subtract, and Global. You could also do it in reverse: use Magic Wand tool with Normal mode and Global, and then use Rectangle select tool with Intersect mode in order to clip it.

magic wand selects similar color, not exact (it how it should be, but are not suitable in that case)

Edited by Ilias

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1 minute ago, Rick Brewster said:

Don't forget to set Tolerance to 0%. I missed that step. Then it selects only the same color as what you click on.

okay, with global mode and tolerance 0 its working, agree,

thanks for responses (especially for pointing me to solution :) )

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@Ilias, I'm not positive how you use the Paint feature, but if I interpret what you want to do correctly, I think that instead of doing all the tricky selection stuff, it might be easier to add a lower white layer, then remove the white from the upper layer with my  Color Clearer, ReMake's Eliminate Dark/Light, or one of the other similar plugins. Then the selections could be made and moved around over the white background without having to worry about the outer area of the selection obscuring some non-white pixels.

 

EDIT: You'd still need to use Paste into New layer to avoid overwriting with transparency, but that would be true no matter how the original selection worked.

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On 02.08.2017 at 2:05 AM, MJW said:

@Ilias, I'm not positive how you use the Paint feature, but if I interpret what you want to do correctly, I think that instead of doing all the tricky selection stuff, it might be easier to add a lower white layer, then remove the white from the upper layer with my  Color Clearer, ReMake's Eliminate Dark/Light, or one of the other similar plugins. Then the selections could be made and moved around over the white background without having to worry about the outer area of the selection obscuring some non-white pixels.

 

EDIT: You'd still need to use Paste into New layer to avoid overwriting with transparency, but that would be true no matter how the original selection worked.

(When you then making some for example white box, and placing something on it you will be unable to move it do not affecting the boxe's fill, you can't always make new layer for each thing which can get on another)

(without the solution i agreed with)

Edited by Ilias

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I love the transparent selection feature of MS Paint because it could do me wonders before I learned Paint.NET and how to work with layers.

 

Basically, I have a background image opened on one MS Paint window and lets say an image of a person opened on another MS Paint window which I would trace out and make sure that it is completely surrounded by white before copy-pasting it to the background image with the transparent selection enabled on both windows. There was jaggedness of course because MS Paint does not have a good feathering feature (but I know a technique how to do some of it on MS Paint). 

 

It makes a lot of sense on a program like MS Paint that has no layer support.

 

However, I think a variation of this  "transparent selection" idea may just be useful  on some situations like for moving text on the same layer. Because if I create a selection on a single letter and use the Move Selected Pixels tool to move that letter, the boundaries of my selection would force transparency on anything else outside that it touches, including other letters. I have encountered this quite a number of times, that I had to create another layer, paste my single letter there so I could move it freely without distorting the other letters. I think it would be an OK addition to "Move Selected Pixels" tool.

 

 

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On 23.08.2017 at 6:43 PM, Ishi said:

However, I think a variation of this  "transparent selection" idea may just be useful  on some situations like for moving text on the same layer. Because if I create a selection on a single letter and use the Move Selected Pixels tool to move that letter, the boundaries of my selection would force transparency on anything else outside that it touches, including other letters. I have encountered this quite a number of times, that I had to create another layer, paste my single letter there so I could move it freely without distorting the other letters. I think it would be an OK addition to "Move Selected Pixels" tool.=

wait, is there transparent pixels getting moved too ?

What a **** , i can understand no ability to ignore white, but holly crab, moving empty pixels is hell ridiculous

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Apparently I struggle with that. Completely transparent pixels/areas INSIDE selections are not ignored and would erase anything on the same layer that it touches when the selection is moved around. Very inconvenient for moving letters for me.

 

 

Edited by Ishi

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Hi,

 

The transparent selection feature is quite useful in MS-Paint and is the only reason I use that program at work to assemble quick mockups of designs for presentations. What would take hours on photoshop and gimp ( taking time to de construct everything into it's own piece with transparency on it's own layer/folder, which is great for large projects) takes mere minutes when using MS-Paint and paint.net, especially when working in agile.

 

The main issue here is that by default when you're working on a layer in Paint.net and make a selection, it grabs the entire image's pixels instead of only those from the selected layer. This feels weird when you're used to Photoshop or Gimp. Because of that, it feels like each layer in Paint.net is an instance of MS Paint... So of course there is a mismatch between what you're expecting and what you get.

 

I recall someone saying that Paint.net has all the features of MS Paint but that's simply not true and you can see it in the main toolbar at the end of the selection tools options list.

 

On 10/13/2017 at 4:52 AM, Ishi said:

Apparently I struggle with that. Completely transparent pixels/areas INSIDE selections are not ignored and would erase anything on the same layer that it touches when the selection is moved around. Very inconvenient for moving letters for me.

YES ! That's part of the problem.

Paint.net deals with selections like MS Paint does except it also wants to use alpha as a main colour channel, which is wrong for many reasons. Because of that you get weird behaviours by default with selections that make no sense for most users.

 

There are other tools which either don't have the default MS Paint behaviour nor, because of how layers work, the Photoshop/Gimp behaviour.

For example, the pipette and fill tools don't work as expected out of the box. You have to tweak their options to get the MS Paint behaviour on a per-layer basis and to avoid destroying your work on background layers unlike in Photoshop where each layer is "protected" from the others.

 

 

 

Edited by TSi
aded details

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Hi @TSi

Welcome to the forum.

1 hour ago, TSi said:

by default when you're working on a layer in Paint.net and make a selection, it grabs the entire image's pixels instead of only those from the selected layer.

 

I"m sure you are referring to the transparent pixels included in your selection. keep in mind you are selecting them.  Knowing they are selected, there are 2 ways to remove them.

First is by not selecting them. Use magic wand to select the transparent pixels then use Ctrl-I to invert selection to grab only colored pixels.

The second way is using magic wand to deselect the transparent pixels you have initially selected by right-clicking on a transparent pixel.

 

1 hour ago, TSi said:

There are other tools which either don't have the default MS Paint behaviour nor, because of how layers work, the Photoshop/Gimp behaviour.

 

I would think @Rick Brewster has no intention of mimicking these other software packages. He has created a unique application that takes some practice with to be able to do what those other packages can do. Some with built in features but many others with the assistance of the plugin contributors.

 

Just my 2 cents worth :)

 

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1 hour ago, AndrewDavid said:

 

1-stly, the 3+ steps use of a "magic wand" just to do things that are that basic and obviously expected by any normal user to happen by default are ridiculous,
not sure what the "that takes some practice with" mean, but if you practically meant "its good that its unergonomic, inefficient and ridiculous, because it makes it more unique", i think it is not other response needed than this clarification.

Edited by Ilias

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22 minutes ago, Ilias said:

"its good that its unergonomic, inefficient and ridiculous

 

... well you've got a wonderful thing called choice

 

If it's that bad, don't use paint.net.  Simples

It would be interesting to see the poll you set up to get the thoughts of "most users"

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3 hours ago, welshblue said:

 

welcome to run the poll, seems it would be good for you to see the results if you think such, ideas/sentences like "its fine, because its ours" won't make bad things good, control your ego,
blocking an account for posting an opinion proofs the point (sorry, its was some bug that caused a security lock)

Edited by ilias48rus

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7 minutes ago, ilias48rus said:

... blocking an account for posting an opinion proofs the point

 

@Ilias / @ilias48rus, there are no blocks on your account.

Why did you need to create a second one?

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Just now, toe_head2001 said:

 

@Ilias / @ilias48rus, there are no blocks on your account.

Why did you need to create a second one?

 

9 minutes ago, ilias48rus said:

(sorry, its was some bug that caused a security lock)


(after i've send the post) i got an email with password reset (there was some connection issue that causes the site think that login attems amount have exceeded the limit), you can delete the 2nd one if its not bothering

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4 hours ago, Ilias said:

expected by any normal user

I must be an abnormal user. If you keep using paint.net you are in danger of losing your normality. 🤪

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Note that i didn't meant that Paint.net is a bad program or that i do not use it, lot of works on PC would be meaningfully harder without it and i'm thankful to developers for making it, this thread are about a certain functionality, and i just personally hardly dislike when some people conceal issues by empty things like "it makes it unique" or "the issue are not real because i don't think feel/see it is" or "if its not a huge/key problem it doesn't worth being mentioned" or whatever else of such kind.
(for me this seems to be obvious, but people tend to look at things trough their kaleidoscopes)

Edited by Ilias

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8 hours ago, TSi said:

The main issue here is that by default when you're working on a layer in Paint.net and make a selection, it grabs the entire image's pixels instead of only those from the selected layer.

 

No it doesn't. Paint.net copies from the layer (only) unless you're using Copy Merged (Ctrl + Shift + C).

 

How are you copying once the selection is made?

 

 

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