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existintin

Save as should not force me to Flatten my image

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"Save as" as its name implies means that I don't want to save this file as PND, PNG or whatever, I just want to "save as" it is.

 

That means I should not have to Flatten my image to just to get an output file.

 

"save as" should Flatten my image automatically in the background and don't change any history in right History panel.

 

Good UX = more users

 

Have a good day :)

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All files, images or otherwise, have a file extension because they are digital.  Your computer needs to know what program (or app) to use to open them.

 

If you have a multi-layered image open in Paint.Net, it will automatically save it in the PDN format.  That preserves the layers of the file should you need to work on them later.

 

'Save As' does not force you to flatten your image.  That only happens if you have a multi-layered file and try to save as a PNG, JPG, etc....then it has to be flattened.

 

You cannot save a file without an extension.  You also cannot preserve the 'history' of a file.  You need to screenshot for that.

 

EDIT:  I obviously misunderstood what you were after.

Edited by lynxster4

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Though it might seem at first to be a good idea, I don't think it is. Suppose you save a multi-layer image as a PNG. Now the .png file name is associated with the image. If you make subsequent changes to the image, then exit PDN, you'll be asked if you want to save the changes. If you say Yes, it will be saved as the flattened PNG file. You might not be too happy the next time you open the image for editing. No doubt there are ways to avoid problems, but is the added complication really worth it to save you the effort of using Ctrl-Shift-C to copy the merged image, followed by Ctrl-Alt-V to paste it to a new image? In the second approach, you end up with two versions, each with an appropriate file type.

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4 hours ago, existintin said:

"Save as" as its name implies means that I don't want to save this file as PND, PNG or whatever, I just want to "save as" it is.

 

Then you want to use Save and not Save As...

 

Save As... is the way users specify an new filename, location or file type. if you don't want to change any of those, use Save.

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6 hours ago, existintin said:

"save as" should Flatten my image automatically in the background and don't change any history in right History panel.

I agree; mostly. Having to 'Undo' after a 'Save As' can be a nuisance.

 

Personally, I would like Save and Save As to only work with project files (.pdn, .ora, .psd)

The single image formats (.png, .bmp, jpeg) would be made available in an Export menu item.

 

However, I certainly understand why it is step the way it is, and it too has its merits.

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Please read thread title, the point of this thread is not "Save As" vs "Save".

 

Quote

"save as" should Flatten my image automatically in the background and don't change any history in right History panel.

 

 

Edited by existintin

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Ok. These two statements are somewhat contradictory...

 

44 minutes ago, existintin said:

"save as" should Flatten my image automatically in the background and don't change any history in right History panel.

 

On 3/12/2016 at 10:37 AM, existintin said:

"Save as" as its name implies means that I don't want to save this file as PND, PNG or whatever, I just want to "save as" it is.

 

You want paint.net to "somehow" assume to know which file format you want to save the image in... then go ahead and flatten your image and save it, without you inputting anything like an extension or a filename? You want paint.net to make up a location for it as well?

 

 

 

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Okay this is last time I will try to explain this,

 

I am trying to say that Paint.NET should not assume my gender or filename extension, I am saying that it should not add Flatten to History Panel instead should do the flattening in the background before saving with an appropriate image format I picked.

 

Here's what I do: I click Save or Save As (doesn't matter which), when Save Dialog opens and I enter a filename and pick an extension / image format then click Save, it should not add Flatten action in History when I click Save because I will continue to edit my image after getting an export (Save/Save As).

 

So every time I do Save or Save As and I get a file, after I get back to Paint.NET, I have to undo "Flatten" in History Panel because I don't need it.

 

I'm not speaking German or Swedish, please understand this time :)

 

I repeat what I said in my previous post, this is not about Save dialog assuming file path, file extension, codec, or whatever.

It is about not adding Flatten to History because I undo that Flatten every time I save and it is pretty useless for user because the user will continue to edit the image after getting a temporary/current export of the project/image.

Edited by existintin

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(I think) I understand what you are saying - that 'Save As' should create and save a seperate flattened copy of the active image without changing the layered .pdn file?

That can be done:


1. Edit/Select all
2. Edit/Copy Merged
3. Edit/Paste into new image
4. File/Save As
5. Close flattened version and re-select original .pdn file.


A one click way to do this could be useful (possibly 'Export png' ?) but whether it is worth the developement time is up to the author Rick Brewster, who effectively works on this project for free.

 

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Ah. Right. got you now. 

 

Red's solution! Definitely.

 

1. Ctrl + A = Edit/Select all
2. Ctrl + Shift + C = Edit/Copy Merged
3. Ctrl + Alt + V = Edit/Paste into new image
4. Ctrl + Shift + S = File/Save As
5. Close flattened version and re-select original .pdn file.

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Regarding Red's solution, this is a flaw. GIMP and Photoshop can export a current state image without flattening it (at least not visibly) and writing "Flatten" to History.

 

See it's one step in GIMP and Photoshop, Ctrl+Alt+S (Save As!), no Flatten in History.

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You're stating your opinion as an objective fact. It's just your subjective opinion. We simply disagree about the design here.

  • Upvote 1

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2 hours ago, Rick Brewster said:

We simply disagree about the design here.

 

...and only one of you is the developer of the application. ;)

  • Upvote 1

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Oh dear, what a blinkin' mess. Now I might have the wrong end of the stick but I see it like this:

Forget "Save" that only saves the file immediatyely in the current location with the cureent name and extension

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This computer decided to submit my last post all by itself. I hadn't finished it, so I'll continue:

"Save As" allows the option to change the filename and/or destination and/or extension. if you change the ext. (eg. .png) it will flatten the image. Now, your working in that file format (.png) if you wish to continue working with separated layers simply choose the appropriate file from File - Recent or elect from the thumbnails at the top of the screen

Does this help at all, or just confuse more? Is it too late anyway? Am I completely missing the point? Does anybody care?

Edited by PlainoldTony

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On 2/23/2017 at 10:31 PM, Rick Brewster said:

You're stating your opinion as an objective fact. It's just your subjective opinion. We simply disagree about the design here.

 

Bumping this thread. I think it's very important feature.

Let me give some examples from practice. I'm making animation in PaintNet, and I have about 241 layers representing individual frames + about 4-6 helper layers + background. I save frames in PNG by hiding all other layers except needed frame + helper layers. Now, you can imagine how tedious it is to save individual frame:

  1. Make needed frame visible
  2. Save As...
  3. Select .png type
  4. Press save
  5. Press "flatten layers"
  6. Wait while flattening...
  7. Press Ctrl+Z
  8. Wait while unflattering...
  9. Scroll 200+ layers up to find visible layer (after unflattering layer view is reset to bottom layers)
  10. Repeat 250 times...

I guess, it's easy to see how simpler and faster it would be with "Export PNG" feature. I don't think its principal design issue. It's just minor additional feature.

As a programmer, I fail to see that it is extremely hard to implement. Just leave "Save as..." as it is, it's fine. It's only a matter of adding additional File -> Export -> PNG menu and firing up same algorithm you use for flattering PDN file in background, without affecting current opened document state in any way.

 

Anyways, I think PaintNet is best 2D graphics editor ever, its just that this small lacking features making me really sad. But I'm still using it, coz I love it!

Thanks for attention.

 

P.S.

Another useful feature would be ability to save all layers as separate PNG files, but that would be a bit more complex to implement, I guess.

 

Edited by ScienceDiscoverer
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We're in the midst of doing a "Save a Copy" / "Export" feature right now. @Bruce Bowyer-Smyth already has a pull request that prototypes it. The code isn't difficult, but it really is a chin-scratcher on the design side. Hopefully we'll avoid too much bike-shedding. Everyone who requests this seems to have a slightly different opinion about how they want it to work, so we need to distill that to find a common denominator that works for almost everyone.

 

For now, you might be better served by using Edit -> Copy Merged for your workflow.

 

The first time

1. Edit -> Select All (Ctrl+A)

2. Edit -> Copy Merged (Ctrl+Shift+C)

3. Edit -> Copy into New Image (Ctrl+Alt+V)

4. File -> Save (Ctrl+S), then choose destination file and save options

5. Switch back to the PDN's tab (Ctrl+Shift+Tab)

 

The 2nd+ times

1. Edit -> Select All (Ctrl+A)

2. Edit -> Copy Merged (Ctrl+Shift+C)

3. Switch to the tab with the flattened copy (Ctrl+Tab)

4. Edit -> Paste (Ctrl+V)

5. File->Save (Ctrl+S)

6. Switch back to the PDN's tab (Ctrl+Shift+Tab)

 

Once you do it a few times, the muscle memory is pretty easy.

 

Another useful feature would be ability to save all layers as separate PNG files, but that would be a bit more complex to implement, I guess.

Not difficult, it's just that everyone who wants this will want a slightly different outcome, mostly with respect to the way the files are named. OriginalFile.1.png through OriginalFile.37.png? (or should it start at zero?) Or maybe OriginalFile.1.LayerName.png or ..... anyway there's a million variations. Scripting support seems a better channel for enabling this.

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The "Copy Merged" function seems like a step in the right direction, that underpins future enhancements.

 

1. Copy Merged, for now

2. File -> Export - would show a Export As file dialog, the [Copy Merged] function would be able to copy to a virtual file-tab in the background, and save to the Export As location, then close the virtual file-tab.

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