New rule -- Do not bite newbies

[lablox]

this thread seems like a good idea...

Its not at good idea to scare off newcomers (as i almost was).... Thats not the way of encurage people to share their knowledge. To be new in this forum, is not the same as be new to this program!

NigelTufnel wrote: "Yes, I did see the next line. But "good" is highly subjective. Some of the tutorials posted by first time posters to the forum might not be considered "good" by the moderators, but they do illustrate concepts that, while seeming mundane to others, are actually useful to other noobs. And noobs are the whole reason that forums exist. I've seen plenty of decent first time tutorials locked by the mods after being chastised for not reading the rules. And I've seen plenty of tuts posted that got high praise even though the tut wasn't that great."

I could´nt agree more!

Noobs learn to .. perhaps the pro´s are scared of becoming a noob some day :-)

[NigelTufnel]

Noobs learn to .. perhaps the pro´s are scared of becoming a noob some day :-)

Exactly. I'm a musician and frequent some other guitar forums and am even mod/admin on some (not under this user name, though). In all of those forums, newbie participation is actively encouraged. We encourage them to post recordings of their work or their tone, and ask even the simplest of questions. Even if it isn't good...heck, ESPECIALLY if it isn't good, so we can help them get their tone or recording methods correct. We HELP them, not shut them down. Nobody criticizes them for making the attempt. And certainly nobody bans them or locks their thread because what they posted was too simple or because we've seen or heard it thousands of times before. You can learn from anything, and that goes for the senior members of the forum too. Sometimes, the newbie members have some really great ideas that we never would have thought of because it's too simple.

When you have the attitude that you just can't learn from anyone else, that's when you start stagnating and die. And it leads to elitist stuff like we've seen around here time and time again.

[david.atwell]

And it leads to elitist stuff like we've seen around here time and time again.

Says the person with six posts. :-)

All kidding aside, I've only been around for about nine months. Despite my post count, that makes me a rather younger member. And I've never seen any elitist stuff; just people with weak skin. I have seen instances of newbie biting, which makes this rule more than necessary; however, I've never seen anything that would suggest to me that more drastic action were needed.

[Sozo]

And it leads to elitist stuff like we've seen around here time and time again.

Says the person with six posts. :-)

All kidding aside, I've only been around for about nine months. Despite my post count, that makes me a rather younger member. And I've never seen any elitist stuff; just people with weak skin. I have seen instances of newbie biting, which makes this rule more than necessary; however, I've never seen anything that would suggest to me that more drastic action were needed.

As I recall, during my newbie days I got pretty constructive criticism, which is good because my stuff was fairly awful. I myself am a fairly "young" member, but I can't recall any elitism myself, just Vern's perception of it.

[NigelTufnel]

Says the person with six posts. :-)

Very funny, David. I'll take it in the spirit in which you intended it...I think.

By "elitism" what I meant was snobbery, and don't tell me you haven't seen that here. I've been lurking in this forum at least as long as you've been here.

[david.atwell]

Thank you. It was indeed intended in jest.

As I said, I've been a member for about a year - I was a lurker for about six months previous. And I've seen very little snobbery. As Sozo said, criticism abounds - some of it more constructive than others, admittedly, and some of it downright mean. But overall it has been correct and justified, not snobbery for eliteness' sake.

[V.A]

@ Rick Brewster

Were these complaints (see the first post in this thread) not in the first place sent to you by any chance ?

Admit that you are not the most friendly guy on earth yourself when you give answers to newbies.

I have been slammed 2 or 3 times by Your Holiness, so I know what I am talking about.

[Wither]

For the record, I never really though newbies would taste very good. I avoided biting them to save my taste buds.

I'm glad to see this rule enacted as some of the criticism (primarily in new tutorials) was enough to make anyone cry. And given the fact that (presumably) most of the "newb tutorials" were written by younger teenagers... >_>

Can anyone say, "Therapy for self-esteem issues"? :shock:

In all of those forums, newbie participation is actively encouraged. We encourage them to post recordings of their work or their tone, and ask even the simplest of questions. Even if it isn't good...heck, ESPECIALLY if it isn't good, so we can help them get their tone or recording methods correct. We HELP them, not shut them down.

Hmm, I agree with you there. But we don't discourage all newbie participation. We just don't like it when they try and teach something they don't fully understand themselves. Think of it as someone who just learned a few basic chords on a guitar trying to give lessons to someone else. It's not "bad" per se, but you know that it's better for the students to learn from someone more experienced.

@ Rick Brewster

Were these complaints (see the first post in this thread) not in the first place sent to you by any chance ?

Admit that you are not the most friendly guy on earth yourself when you give answers to newbies.

I have been slammed 2 or 3 times by Your Holiness, so I know what I am talking about.

He's not the friendliest of all people at times, but he's not 'a biter'. He's just making sure that the rules are enforced. Locking a poorly titled thread and asking the poster to read the rules before posting again (which they should have done in the first place) isn't really that harsh, is it?

---

And now I feel I'm caught up on 'current events'.

[journey]

I have a question, how long do you have to use the forum until people concitter you a human being and not a newbie?

[pyrochild]

I have a question, how long do you have to use the forum until people concitter you a human being and not a newbie?

Sarcastic answer: When you look up the real way to spell "concitter."

Real answer: Being a newbie doesn't mean you're not considered a human It's entirely possible to be both.

[david.atwell]

One day longer than you've been a member. :-) Just kidding.

Actually, the point of this rule is to try and make that time instantaneous...

[chrisjw37]

Yeppers

Even they taste nice and sweet to the old farts

it's really not a nice thing to do.

Best way to get peeps using paint.net ?

.............encourage them :!:

I've been spamming all my mates, clients and lovers with the programme,

so nasty boys really don't help, even if it does give them a smug sense of self satisfaction.

[journey]

I think this is great, this is one of the friendliest forums ive ever seen

[tsarnikolas2]

I freely admit: In the past I have been a totally dumb, ignorant newbie BUT I did read the rules. Several times as a matter of fact because Rick referred me back to them when I made mistakes in posting.

I have encountered really rude people in the threads, but for the most part, I have been treated with unbelievable patience. Even encouraged by David to go back to a tutorial he did and ask my question there, (I didn't in the first place because someone did more than bite in another tutorial); because there were probably people out there wondering the same thing.

I think moderation in all we do would probably work here. Newbies develop thicker skins, (with enough biting, I did :wink:) and you old farts lighten up a little--and yes I'm talking to everyone who's been doing this since they were born.

Us truly old farts need a helping hand sometime with this new technology stuff and when we gush in our excitement, someone needs to step on us, (gently please).

[V.A]

I have a question, how long do you have to use the forum until people concitter you a human being and not a newbie?

Sarcastic answer: When you look up the real way to spell "concitter."

Real answer: Being a newbie doesn't mean you're not considered a human It's entirely possible to be both.

@pyrochild

The first line of your answer is a nasty (biting) one.

I will NEVER do such a thing to somebody who tries to communicate with me in my own language.

Not everybody on the whole wide word manages the English language the way you do.

I manage 4 languages, how many do you speak, write and understand reasonably ?

That first line of your answer was a stupid one and you really should say sorry here !

[tsarnikolas2]

Yes Pyro--VA has a point.......not cool!! Not everyone knows or gets your humor AND not everyone in this forum speaks English as their first language. Just saying.

[BoltBait]

I have a question, how long do you have to use the forum until people concitter you a human being and not a newbie?

Sarcastic answer: When you look up the real way to spell "concitter."

Real answer: Being a newbie doesn't mean you're not considered a human It's entirely possible to be both.

@pyrochild

The first line of your answer is a nasty (biting) one.

I will NEVER do such a thing to somebody who tries to communicate with me in my own language.

Not everybody on the whole wide word manages the English language the way you do.

I manage 4 languages, how many do you speak, write and understand reasonably ?

That first line of your answer was a stupid one and you really should say sorry here !

V.A, pyrochild clearly stated that his first line was a joke. "Sarcastic answer:" means that a joke follows.

Let's examine Journey's next post to see if he was offended...

I think this is great, this is one of the friendliest forums ive ever seen

Nope. Doesn't look like it.

[ncfan51]

I have a question, how long do you have to use the forum until people concitter you a human being and not a newbie?

You don't need a high post count, or be here for a long time to no be considered a newbie. Aatwo and TheVoid, i.e., have low post counts but are both highly respected members of the community. Richard, for example, hasn't been here long, but has proven himself as a talented and considerate user. All you need to do is act maturely, intelligently, and respectfully. The example of what not to do is call people "Your Holiness" ( ), t4lk lyk dis (the occasional "lol" is fine) and getting angry over the littlest things.

[bestofbest]

I have a question, how long do you have to use the forum until people concitter you a human being and not a newbie?

Sarcastic answer: When you look up the real way to spell "concitter."

Real answer: Being a newbie doesn't mean you're not considered a human It's entirely possible to be both.

@pyrochild

The first line of your answer is a nasty (biting) one.

I will NEVER do such a thing to somebody who tries to communicate with me in my own language.

Not everybody on the whole wide word manages the English language the way you do.

I manage 4 languages, how many do you speak, write and understand reasonably ?

That first line of your answer was a stupid one and you really should say sorry here !

You have to admit it's kinda funny tho

[david.atwell]

Let it go.

[Simon Brown]

Aatwo and TheVoid, i.e., have low post counts but are both highly respected members of the community.

Not to mention Ed Harvey.

[jerkfight]

Aatwo and TheVoid, i.e., have low post counts but are both highly respected members of the community.

Not to mention Ed Harvey.

Indeed, one of my favourite plugin authors.

[Simon Brown]

Why isn't this locked?

[david.atwell]

Please don't try to do my job for me. It's not locked so that people can ask for clarification, etc. On that note, though, let's try to keep it on-topic.

[jchunn]

Please don't try to do my job for me. It's not locked so that people can ask for clarification, etc. On that note, though, let's try to keep it on-topic.

I think he was just pointing out that all of the other posts in the "announcement" section are locked, even in the other parts of the forum. I asked myself the same question, but didn't care enough to ask about it.